[DarcyJan]

Hello Everyone,

We have a new member of the family! A fifth generation Australian Labradoodle named Evita. We got her about two weeks ago at the age of five and one half months and we were instructed by the breeder to feed her raw foods only. This inclues a natural brand of dog food which has ground up meat, vegetables and ground up bones. We have also been feeding her raw turkey necks, raw beef bones, etc. This is what he believes in and what she has grown up eating. Even the people at our pet store loved the fact that she was only eating raw food.

We took Evita to the vet yesterday for her first check-up. The vet does not believe in raw foods, as she said that the bones, if not well chewed and ground up, can get stuck in their intestines and cause problems. And, actually, one night we gave Evita raw chicken wings and she did throw up. I saw that the bone had not been well chewed before swallowed. Then there is the salmonella issue....

The vet also believes in brushing the teeth daily, sealing the teeth with some waxy substance she gave us, monthly tick pills (we live in NYC), ad infinitum. Our breeder told us nothing about this, as he believes that gnawing on raw bones will take care of her teeth. Then, our breeder also told us to remove ear hair weekly and our vet does not believe in this either.

As brand new owners, we both came home from the vet and cried. We love our doodle bug but now do not know whether to listen to our breeder or our vet. This vet was actually recommended by our breeder!

The vet determined that she was "perfect". Her weight, coat, behavior and everything else was great!

Does salmonella affect dogs in an adverse way? What does everyone else feed their pups and adults? Does anyone take out ear hair? We are so confused now.

I will post a photo as soon as I get a moment. If you can help us in any way, we would so appreciate it.

 

[KingstonTodd]

You will find as many opinions on raw food as places you look. We feed raw, for us it's great, the dogs are healthy and happy, and no dangerous incidents. The dogs handle uncooked bones well. You have to do a lot of reading to figure out how to create a balanced diet for them if you do feed raw, it cant be chicken wings every day. lol

Here is a good link to start with, 50 FAQs about raw:
http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm

 

[SadieFern]

It's totally up to you and what works for your dog. If the raw is working and you can afford it, stick with it. The vet can't tell you what you have to feed your dog. However, stick with the national brand (Nature's Variety?) and their bones.
I know of people who give their dogs raw from the grocery store, and that may work for you but chicken wings are so little to start with....

If you decide to switch to a kibble, your dog will live. Read, read, read, and decide what YOU think is best.

Personally, we give Sadie a high quiality kibble and we supplement it with raw bones (for her teeth, we don't brush them), and raw medallions from time to time.

Don't stress over it too much. Sometimes my kids eat salad and sometimes McDonalds. Know what I mean??

 

[Jac]

Hello, welcome to the forum and congratulations on your selection of a puppy!
I do not agree with your vet, but I understand the concern. If you search raw foods (as in all things) you will find a heated debate with experts weighing in on all sides.
Are raw bones potentially harmful? Yes.
Is processed dog food potentially harmful? Yes! Take a look at all of the dogs that died from eating tainted dog food in the last year and you will be horrified! (I lost a pup to tainted kibble, then another to tainted chicken tenders...advertised as only pure chicken, but made in China and containing toxins.)
Your vet gets a kickback from the foods he/she sells, so if the recommendation is for a brand sold in his/her office, keep looking at brands.
Most people elect to use kibble for a variety of reasons.
We feed canned and kibble, but if I only had one dog I would, absolutely, fed raw, or I would cook and let my dog eat what we eat, for the most part (except for the things like seasonings, salt, onions, etc.) But with 10 dogs I would be preparing foods all the time.
Dry dog food has contained salmonella! So do dog treats! You just have to be very cautious and know your dog.
If you worry about splintering bones from chicken necks and wings, then only use the ground and prepared raw meals...and let your pup chew on large meaty bones to clean her teeth.
I agree that raw bones are the best for cleaning teeth and my dogs love them. Of course there is a chance of salmonella, but the risk is more to your human family than to your dog (although dogs do get affected) so everyone should carefully wash their hands often...and you might want to select a certain area for the bone chewing that removes most of your fears...
If your pup is doing well on raw and your breeder fed her raw from day one and you are okay with it, then don't be swayed by what your vet says...believe me, if your dog is not chewing bones, she will likely be chewing sticks, plastic, metal...well, you get the idea...
This must be YOUR choice, based on your consultation with the vet and with other research...ask people who have been feeding raw about their experiences. Ask other vets...you MAY find one who endorses raw, not that many do...but, as I mentioned, I question their motives. :wink:

 

[L's Mom]

Hello, welcome to the forum and congratulations on your selection of a puppy!
I do not agree with your vet, but I understand the concern. If you search raw foods (as in all things) you will find a heated debate with experts weighing in on all sides.
Are raw bones potentially harmful? Yes.
Is processed dog food potentially harmful? Yes! Take a look at all of the dogs that died from eating tainted dog food in the last year and you will be horrified! (I lost a pup to tainted kibble, then another to tainted chicken tenders...advertised as only pure chicken, but made in China and containing toxins.)
Your vet gets a kickback from the foods he/she sells, so if the recommendation is for a brand sold in his/her office, keep looking at brands.
Most people elect to use kibble for a variety of reasons.
We feed canned and kibble, but if I only had one dog I would, absolutely, fed raw, or I would cook and let my dog eat what we eat, for the most part (except for the things like seasonings, salt, onions, etc.) But with 10 dogs I would be preparing foods all the time.
Dry dog food has contained salmonella! So do dog treats! You just have to be very cautious and know your dog.
If you worry about splintering bones from chicken necks and wings, then only use the ground and prepared raw meals...and let your pup chew on large meaty bones to clean her teeth.
I agree that raw bones are the best for cleaning teeth and my dogs love them. Of course there is a chance of salmonella, but the risk is more to your human family than to your dog (although dogs do get affected) so everyone should carefully wash their hands often...and you might want to select a certain area for the bone chewing that removes most of your fears...
If your pup is doing well on raw and your breeder fed her raw from day one and you are okay with it, then don't be swayed by what your vet says...believe me, if your dog is not chewing bones, she will likely be chewing sticks, plastic, metal...well, you get the idea...
This must be YOUR choice, based on your consultation with the vet and with other research...ask people who have been feeding raw about their experiences. Ask other vets...you MAY find one who endorses raw, not that many do...but, as I mentioned, I question their motives. :wink:

Well, goodness, I don't think I can add to that! That was perfect!

I will tell you that we feed our doodles kibble (Canidae) and raw... we decided to do both, because it is easier on us and many kennels will not feed your dog raw foods, so I do both, just incase they need to be kenneled or stay with someone who is uncomforable with feeding raw (I was surprised how many people think this is weird)... I say do what works for you!

 

[DarcyJan]

Thank You So Much

I was so happy to see the responses when I arrived home! I feel so relieved and appreciative of all the great answers. We are going to stick with the raw food basically. And even though the vet also did not like bully sticks, Evita loves them and I gave her one today.

So, thank you to all the fabulous doodle owners who helped me out today. I do think the best idea is to stick with what she likes and knows and just leave out the chicken wings for now. We will just feed her the raw patties.

As for the teeth brushing, I still do not know what to do, but I guess it cannot hurt her. The vet said her teeth were very white but that was because she "is a puppy".

You guys are the best!

 

[Shaia]

Of course there is a chance of salmonella, but the risk is more to your human family than to your dog (although dogs do get affected) so everyone should carefully wash their hands often...and you might want to select a certain area for the bone chewing that removes most of your fears...

interesting you mention this.... i have a freezer full of raw lamb bones that i bought a while back. i finally gave shaia one about a month ago - she loved it - BUT - that night, i got the WORST food poisoning and was bed ridden for days. couldn't eat for like a week. i had gone out to a dinner party that same night and had scallops and assumed that was the culprit. now, i wonder if it wasn't the lamb bone!!! maybe i wasn't careful enough! it gave shaia diarrhea but i assumed it was the marrow being so rich. hmmmmmm. something to consider. needless to say, i am scared to give her another (more for my sake :shock: )

 

[Lucee&Rusty]

Isn't it funny how vets differ. Our vet owns poodles and he
told us to pluck our doodles ear hair or we would be back
paying him another visit soon due to ear problems.

We feed our dogs mainly raw (our vet knew the barf diet
and was quite happy for us to continue on it) A few months
later in the same vet surgery we saw a younger vet and
she didn't know what the barf diet was and was trying to
get us to change our doodles diet. We add a little kibble Royal Canin
to their diet and brisket bones (hope that's not an Aussie term)
Apparently brisket bones are easily digested in a dogs system
unlike other bones eg chicken, marrow bones etc.

I don't know if this is because of their diet or a doodle thing
but our dog poops are small and compact. I notice at dog
training the other dogs have huge piles of poop even though
they are small breed dogs. Lucee is a medium Aussie doodle
and 7 mths old. Food for thought???

 

[sarahann]

Hi there,

We feed our doodles 2/3 Orijen Kibble and 1/3 home cooked which they seem happy with.

I just read an article at the vet office today about the RAW diet. It said that there has only ever been one study conducted (this could be w/in Canada??) and that it proved to be inadaquet. I think it said mostly because the RAW diet failed to balance Calcium and Phosphors. My vet doesn't recommend it because of the health risk to the humans.

On the other hand many homeopathic vets do recommend it.

Good luck with your new puppy!

Sarah

 

[MaxandMe]

i still debated about RAW and with older doodles i'd have to transition them as their digestive systems are used to Kibble and sometimes homecooked and/or fresh fruits , cheese etc.

in past I cooked for 4.5mos for Max when he had problems and now him and Peanut have been on Canidae for the past year with great health.

 

[KingstonTodd]

The calciumhosphorus ratio is important. Beef contains lots of pohosphorus, and bone contains the calcium. Thats why its important to give meat and bones to your pup on raw, if you just give meat, your gonna have a problem. Getting the nutrient correct takes some reading, but you can find lots of sample diets on the internet that you can follow, you dont have to reinvent the wheel. Also, every meal doesnt need to be balanced, its about balancing over time.

 

[blueteal]

I only have one dog and choose not to feed a raw diet
Denver gets kibble, some canned and mostly home cooked.............
So it really is a personal choice and what works for each dog.........
If raw is working for your Doodle then stick with what works.
:wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

 

[mtd885]

The feeling I get from your post is to look for another Vet. Hand washing is paramount when feeding RAW!!! The digestive system of the dog is more than 50% hydrochloric acid so I would not worry about digesting bones. Dogs routinely regurgitate food that was not chewed well. They will just eat the regurge and chew it better if you leave them to it which is part of the natural process. If you search under Raw you will find lots of info I posted on the subject. If you have not already done so check out www.Rawmeatybones.com and read Tom Lonsdales book. I routinely feed lamb breasts,Pork pinics,briskets,fish etc. My last purchase was for $100 and I got almost 4 months worth of food. NEW VET :roll:

 

[bensmom]

Doodle Feeding

We feed Nutro Large Breed and occasionally Science Diet kibbles -- have pretty much quit using canned food. And, we do brush his teeth at least three times a week.

We're lucky to have lots of frozen salmon, so I puree whole poached salmon to use as top dressing and a base for baked training treats -- we put about 1/3 of a cup on his kibbles and stir it in along with steamed carrots, broccoli, asparagus, green beans -- whatever veggie we ate that night ourselves -- or we add whatever meat we may have had ourselves instead of the salmon. We have found that corn kernels go thru intact, so we no longer give him corn at all.

He also loves raw broccoli, carrots, sweet peppers, frozen cut green beans, green peas, apples, crunchy romaine ribs. I guess it's easier to say what he does NOT get -- fat, grease, skin (except for fish skin), most bready things, bones, highly seasoned food, onions, grapes, yadda, yadda.

Mary in AK

 

[Jac]

A lot of good info and advice here!
I wanted to mention the ear hair plucking and teeth brushing because I have changed my mind on both! (Funny what experience teaches us!)
I was one who gave tooth brushes and doggie toothpaste to all of my puppy families...until I got a notice from Pet Edge that the tooth paste was recalled! So, in a panic, I asked them what to do about all of the people who recieved the tooth paste...their response? Oh, you don't need to notify all of your clients, just send us the unused portions back for a refund." Huh??? Recalled for health reasons but don't tell people using it??? So...brushing is good, but don't use toothpaste!
Ear hair...well, I had the opinion that if it is there, it must be for a reason. I reasoned that the hair kept the foreign things from going directly into the ear canal. That is until Chase got 3 foxtails in his ear! Now I have learned that if a foxtail gets embedded in a lot of fur or, worse yet, matted hair, it readily works its way down to the dog...so, when the vet plucked his ear hair, I really thought about it. I don't want to risk those darned foxtails again (I hate that my babies are hurting) and I must admit that $250 in vet bills helped me decide. Now I am working on clipping the dogs down and plucking ear hair...*sigh*

 

[bensmom]

Toothbrushing

Yikes!! Thanks for telling us!!

In fact, my routine has been wash face, put toothpaste on washcloth, scrub teeth, wash face again to get toothpaste out of beard. Now I can eliminate two steps -- application of toothpaste and rewashing the face

Mary in AK

 

[DarcyJan]

I have to admit it is so interesting reading all the responses to my question about food. Also, thank you for the great info on the toothpaste, because I bought some from my vet and now I am not going to use it. Actually, I will call her and ask her if it was recalled. Then, I think I am going to change vets and see if I can find one who agrees with my raw diet selection. I am sticking with it and am extremely careful (thank you!) about handling it. I wash out the sink twice after washing her bowl and I must wash the floor twice a day too if she drags food out of her bowl.

I found out something interesting about my doodle and wonder if anyone has had the same experience......I wiped her ears with a pad the breeder gave me which contains salicylic acid and she FREAKED OUT. She started digging and digging in the carpet and rolling on her ears as if to get the stuff out! Then today, I put an ointment on her nose (which is dry) that I got from the vet and she FREAKED OUT again. She ran to her water bowl to put water on her nose and then rolled around on the carpet as if to wipe it off and was digging again. When I looked at the label, it too said it contained salicylic acid.

Has anyone had this happen with their doodle?

THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH AGAIN!

 

[bensmom]

Salicylic Acid

I'm wondering why your vet wants you to use salicylic acid preparations to clean ears, moisturize, etc. Did he/she diagnose some kind of dermatological disorder??

From what I read at http://dermnetnz.org/treatments/salicylic-acid.html it's serious stuff to be used very carefully and never on irritated or broken skin, near eyes, or on mucous membranes because it can burn and irritate them. It doesn't sound like something I would want to use on a healthy animal just to clean or moisturize, especially a puppy. This site had warnings not to use it on humans 2 yrs or under.

I use unscented, alcohol-free baby wipes to clean my dog's ears, along with an ear wash gel especially for dogs. My vets have also recommended a 50% solution of water and either plain Listerine or vinegar when yeast is a problem.

Mary in AK

 

[amommy2three]

I am a fairly new doodle owner but I did a lot of research on the RAW diet before getting Kirby. I think its GREAT for your dog as long as you can handle it. I found it to be too difficult to make sure I was feeding enough of each thing (ie. bones, liver, heart,...) to make sure they have a balanced diet. It also seemed to be somewhat expensive and time consuming. Many of the RAW feeders that I spoke with feed their pets on a plastic mat on the bathroom/kitchen floor or outdoors. It didn't work out FOR ME but I do supplement Kirby's diet with RAW meaty bones on a regular basis. I also feed him raw meat or eggs too. I also ran into problems with my vet about feeding RAW. He was VERY AGAINST it and couldn't give me a reason. When I asked him to suggest a good kibble he said they are all good (that any large company has done enough research)! I was not happy with this, among other things, and have since switched vets.

As far as the ear plucking - I'd say DO IT. I purchased a powder from the pet store and it makes the hair VERY easy to remove with my fingers. At first I thought it would be very sad but Kirby doesn't mind at all. Kirby came to me with very hairy ears and they were full of mites. I remove the hair every couple of weeks (10 minutes) and his ears seem to be great. His groomer does an excellent job when he went in last - all the hair is gone.

Now for brushing... I'm pretty bad with that. I only do it about once a week (sometimes a little more) but he also has the bones so he's okay for now. I guess I need to do this a little more.

Hope this helps.

 

[Annie]

We have been feeding our dood Matey raw since he came home to us 10 months ago. He was fed raw at the breeder as well. He is 1 year old now (today is his birthday) and he weighs 40 pounds and is about 22" at the top of the shoulder. Our vet approves of RAW and also feeds it to her dogs. We buy the chicken and turkey blend patties and lamb blend as well from Bravo, the blend has vegetables and ground bone added. I spoke with the woman who started Bravo and she said that the amount of salmonella allowed in the raw dog food is much less than what is allowed in human food (because they assume that the humans will cook off the bacteria). We have had no problems with this diet. Also as an added benefit, the poops are smaller and typically hard and compact and turn to white dust within a few days.

We also give him a squirt of salmon oil, a vitamin and a bit of probiotics in the morning. We do supplement his meals at times with chicken and turkey necks, cottage cheese, plain yogurt, eggs and our leftover brown rice and chicken.

He also loves his bully sticks (I found a place that sells odor free sticks) and never has a problem digesting them.