very stuborn and willfull

4177 Views 22 Replies 11 Participants Last post by lisarundell, Apr 14, 2006

Jamie

Discussion Starter · Apr 3, 2006

Bella is extremely wilful and very bright. She has some big problems that we need to get to grips on. She’s almost eleven months old and we admit being softies because she was ill for so long. BUT she needs to learn some manners fast before she either gets run over by the park keeper or worse

Can’t cure her of the following

She jumps up at people constantly both indoors and out

She will frequently try to ‘catch’ cars as they whiz past

Spots a ‘friend’ over the other side of the park and zooms off.

Pulls endlessly on a lead despite our best efforts at getting her to heal

Barks a lot but won’t do it on command.

But she does understand

Fetch your ball

paw

I whisper bye bye’s and she puts herself to bed in her crate.

I yell bed and she knows she’s in trouble and goes to her crate, also knows the difference between the two. (bye bye’s she goes to sleep and bed she remains sitting up in crate)

Knows ‘medicine time’ is just before bed and queues at kitchen gate for spoonful of food and meds.

So how do we get Bella to learn her manners, we know she’s bright enough.
Doesn’t help that her best friend is also a loony so we may need to train both!

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Keith

· #2 · Apr 3, 2006

I will share some of what we have done in our training, and the best commands for the situation. Have you ever been to obedience with Bella?

Jamie said:
Can't cure her of the following

She jumps up at people constantly both indoors and out

"OFF!", with a pull down on the lead (preferrably with your foot to maintain a standing position)

She will frequently try to 'catch' cars as they whiz past

"LEAVE IT", and a tug back on the lead (works for anything you dont want her to have)

Spots a 'friend' over the other side of the park and zooms off.

"STAY CLOSE", lead should have a "j" shape

Pulls endlessly on a lead despite our best efforts at getting her to heal

"HEEL", or "STAY CLOSE"

Barks a lot but won't do it on command.

"QUIET", with a tug on the lead, or a spray of water to the muzzle

Also, this was VERY effective for the headstrong Bandit, and has made SUCH a HUGE difference in his training attitude, behaviour and willingness to cooperate:
http://www.dog-training.com/fsdtchai.htm

I know they LOOK awful, but really this brand, Herm Sprenger (mfg in Germany) is the BEST! The prongs are rounded and not violent at all. They simply do what they are designed to, provide consistent gentle pressure at the neck like a mother would do to them for a correction.

pull = gentle even pressure on the lead (down, up, forward, backward) in a direction associated with the command.

tug = a quick snap of the lead in the direction associated with the command.

All lead actions are much more definitive with a prong as opposed to a standard collar. And unlike a choke chain, more naturally effective.

Best suggestion I have is to take an obendience class, Bella and your family/friends will thank you.

HTH

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K9Summer

· #3 · Apr 3, 2006

Hi Jamie! Bella sounds like a smart dog! Since it seems like you have a few problems, I'll recommend a book that has changed the way our dogs behave. The book is called "The Dog Listener" by Jan Fennell. It teaches you how to be in charge of your dog, and not the other way around! I love it! Make sure you get a copy with the 30-day training guide in the back.
Good luck with Bella! Stay consistent, and really good treats never hurt!

Bridget, Summer, and Duke

Keith

· #4 · Apr 3, 2006

cheese... the magical power of cheese.

I cant say enough about it.

During training the is wat we use and it has been a great tool.

lisarundell

· #5 · Apr 3, 2006

Jamie, The Dog Listener is a very good book, it has a lot of very useful info. She gives the reader a view into the commumity the dogs came from the "pack" and how it applies to people their dogs. I believe it addresses some of the issues you are experiencing. I read parts of it before we picked up our doodle, Lani, 6 weeks ago. Bella sounds very smart indeed. Good luck.

http://labradoodle-dogs.net/gallery/thu ... ?album=113

Chesterpal

· #6 · Apr 4, 2006

The prong collar has been great for Chester. He's a big, strong boy and I don't think I could walk him without it.

seazr

· #7 · Apr 5, 2006

Well, based on all of your many recommendations, after class last night, I intended to buy a prong collar for Dakota because it's almost impossible for me to control him on a walk anymore. One of the trainers told me that prong collars are absolutely NOT allowed in class. Instead she steered me to the gentle leader. Haven't tried it yet, but I'll keep you posted!
Diane

Jannie

· #8 · Apr 5, 2006

Hi Diane

I struggled with what kind of control collar to buy my puppy and got a lot of great advice from this forum. Many people here have had good success with the prong collar, but I decided to try the gentle leader first. It does help, although it is not the miracle solution it claims to be on the box! But it does prevent pulling, because when the dog pulls, its head goes down and back toward the leash. It doesn't really stop jumping, but my dog has settled down in that regard so it's not a big issue for me anymore.

Best of luck!

susan

· #9 · Apr 5, 2006

I love my prong collar. I purchased it from K-9 Toolbox, on-line. It's a Herm Sprenger Coran, I think! I could not control Biscuit without a prong on a walk. And, we prong at home and in training classes. I have put the prong around my arm and pulled, it only puts pressure and does not poke into you. I don't think there is any problems with using it. I see a lot of big dogs with prongs. They are like power steering for the dog.

I also make Biscuit sit before anyone can address him. I has helped tremendously in his jumping up on people. While training, I step on his leash so he cannot jump up. I tell people that he has to sit before they can pet him. So, far it has worked. Today, he sat when we greeted someone (without me even saying it

).

Good luck. Training and consistency is my key. And, lots of exercise.

Susan

2doodsmom

· #10 · Apr 5, 2006

hi Jamie! Prong collar! Prong collar! Prong collar. I don't get why anyone is troubled by these except they look so fierce. They are not. I use them whenever my doodles are around other people, and in training sessions. I have used them with my dogs for 15 years and have only had positive results with them. They don't hurt your dog. They give you an effective means to deliver a quick correction, which is the secret to success. It'll get better, it really will.

Keith

· #11 · Apr 5, 2006

seazr said:
One of the trainers told me that prong collars are absolutely NOT allowed in class.

I find that VERY interesting. My trainer was the one who reccomended the device. Why would your trainer be against it?

:?

Jannie

· #12 · Apr 5, 2006

the classes we are taking at petsmart do not allow pinch collars of any kind

seazr

· #13 · Apr 5, 2006

We take classes at PetsMart also and they forbid the prong collar because they don't like that method for controlling dogs. The GOOD NEWS is, we gave the Gentle Leader a test run at lunch and--SUCCESS! This is the first time Dakota walked quietly (everyting is relative!) by my side!! If this is the reaction I get after 10 minutes, I'm sold!! (PetsMart does allow the Gentle Leader in training classes.)
Diane

Jannie

· #14 · Apr 5, 2006

Diane - so glad to hear the gentle leader is working for you - I found it works too - although not as wonderfully as I had hoped - but it does stop the dog from pulling, making it much more comfortable for the kids to walk her - and this is a good thing!

Chesterpal

· #15 · Apr 6, 2006

The only thing with the gentle leader---and this probably sounds silly to those with normal sized doodle but with a jumbo doodle the gentle leader looks kind of muzzlish and people are a bit fearful. Not that anyone has run screaming or anything...

wannadoodle

· #16 · Apr 7, 2006

PetSmart here "forbid" the prong collar too, then after my big head bashing incident I refused to come to class without it and they now look the other way as they have seen the miraculous change in my doodle. My trainer first had said no because I would never be able to control him without it......not true..he is now doing very well (not perfect) with a regular collar sometimes. The gentle leader just did not work for us and people did shy from him because of the muzzle look :?

seazr

· #17 · Apr 8, 2006

I'll put up with the muzzle look. I took Dakota for a long walk yesterday with the gentle leader and it was perfect!! I couldn't believe it! It was such a pleasure!
Diane

JettsMom

· #18 · Apr 8, 2006

I use the Gentle Leader Easy Walk harness on Jett and it works well. She wasn't trained to walk beside me like I am trying to teach Copper so if I want to take them together I put the harness on her. Jett has always walked on an extra-long flexi lead so that she could explore the hiking trails when we walked. Dogs aren't allowed off leash so I thought this was the next best thing.

Jamie

Discussion Starter · #19 · Apr 9, 2006

Must admit we're not keen on the prong either, I accept that others like them but don't feel it's for Bella.

To those that suggested cheese and stuff, we can't because of her total exclusion diet. We do use her food biscuits as training treats though.

trouble is she's so stubborn!

Walking to heal is a nightmare and she just drags us no matter how many times we jerk the lead and stuff.

she's a heavy thing now too :lol:

lisarundell

· #20 · Apr 9, 2006

Here is a suggestion from our puppy class. The heel or steady (what our class uses) is taught standing still not walking the first week. I had to take Lani in the yard because she did not pull on the leash in the house. This is directly from our weekly training sheets.

Standing still let the dog walk around or do whatever she wants except jump on you or anyone else or bark unnecessarily. The instant that you feel the dog pull or tug on the lead command HEEL or STEADY, pop him back and immediately praise the dog. NO TREATS DURING THIS EXCERCISE. IT is essential that you praissse thd dof after each correction. repeat the excercise everytime your dog pulls or tugs you. Note: the STEADY/HEEL exercise MUST be done standing in place the first week. Practice this excercise in a distraction free area the first day, then expose your dog to some distractions so your dog learns not to pull you regardless of what is happening. This excercise cannot be taught correctly if you are walking around. You are ready to walk your dog when your dog stops pulling on the lead when you are standing still. Hope this helps.[/color]

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