Stud Service Opinions PLEASE!

Lucky Me said:

He is blue, but carries famous red lines, as well as one of the 3 chocolates tested by PID, and melanistic mask.
He also has 15 champs in his 6 gen. pedigree, the lab side strong with field champions...good for those that hunt with their doodles.
Does that give him any extra points? What is the average stud fee for a dog like Marley? :?
Perhaps you could let me know Tod after having made all those calls.... Thanks!!

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Judi it sounds like Marley hit the jackpot, with getting a hidden chocolate gene in the midst of all those reds and blacks! Congrats to you!
My first Poodle, Sheba is BbEe and I had no idea how lucky I was, in getting that combo! So you are right, Marley will give the right females a rainbow litter!

I also believe that you should disclose to an prospective breeders that Marley has field trial champions in his background so that you attract the right crowd, possibly intereseted in hunting.

thanks everyone!! You have been a helpful, confirming voice!

by the way, I'm in the process of co-ownership of a Miniature Poodle here in CO from wonderful lines if anyone is ever looking for a red Miniature male for stud service! He's not born yet, but I am so thankful to have found this Miniature Poodle breeder! Email me if you are curious.

Lucky Me said:

You know me and reds Jac!!!
Remember when I posted this a million years ago....


When looking for a RED Standard Poodle it is imperative to ask for the
pedigree of the parents to see that the dogs go back to either Palmares or
Shangri-La. If NEITHER kennel name is in the pedigree then it is likely NOT a red but an apricot.

Due to the increased popularity in the REDS many back-yard breeders are
selling Apricot pups as REDS"

[From what I have researched, there is also a gene that darkens reds & chocolates. Marley's lines carries this. There are alot of dark reds that his dad produced, even with his dad being red-apricot with a light color nose.(a black nosed red is what you aim for with reds....and BOY are they beautiful!!!!
Marley does not carry dillute, however, he is Blue. I still do not understand that one. On some genetic info, blue is considered delute, other info it is not, so I will not know what he can do untill I breed him.
Apricot is a dillute of red if I remember right....
Annmarie & I were going back & forth with info when she was considering breeding Beau. She can probably add more.

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Good info Judi! I haven't done ANY research on reds, because I am obstinate and I have seen apricots sold as reds - - and also because reds have a rep in poodle circles of being unsteady, mentally or emotionally - and that WILL level off as those limited lines get bred out to a broader gene pool, but I'm not much for bandwagons and I hate, with a passion, when people market their ignorance! (such as classifying an apricot as red)

I do have to disagree with you about your Marley....if he is blue then he DOES carry the (d) by definition. Blue is a dilute of black and silver is a double dilute of black, from what I have learned from Poodle people. Or that's what I have read and heard in person.

As for apricot being a dilute of red? I would think that if a Palmares dog is bred to a dog carrying the (d) then a puppy born to be red could dilute to apricot, sure. But it's separate. And I think there's some genetic coding that affects whether a dog is white, yellow, apricot or red, that we don't know about. Because my girl who came from a white poodle expresses the (e) as white/cream, whereas my girl Copper (f1) who is gold with that darkening gene that gives red tones throws cream to apricots. A yellow Lab isn't one uniform color like a white poodle is, so there's something that gives that affect. I do know that there is at least one doodle breeder who specializes in the dark reds and her puppies definitely are coppper colored at birth! Beautiful!!

As for the darkening gene, isn't that interesting? My boy Sunny was born a beige, sort of buff color but turned a fairly dark apricot and has a COPPER-colored tail! He got that from his mom, and I think it is common in yellow labs but that's what I think, not what I know! :roll: I just have seen it in the yellow color-family.

Jac, if a red/apricot dog has a brown nose I think the Labradoodle/ILA people call them "CARAMEL" - which is a nice name but the fur is the fur, and the nose color is separate from fur color. So if you want to isolate the color of the fur, then I would say EITHER nose color can be on ANY dog. does that make sense?

Judi, how's Tuesday holding up?

cocoandjane said:

Maureen, when I read what you said above....
my first thought was how scared I would be to begin a breeding program...
downsizing the standard, to a medium and then to a mini....
I don't know the first thing about that whole process!!
I have read about it and might get the general idea, but
I would be terrified to have those puppies with standard heads and torsos
with legs too small for the rest of their bodies....
I am sure you and many others understand it all and
obviously have both experience and knowledge under their belts...........
I'd love to know more about it all.
Are you already breeding mini's, or mediums??
I am sorry, I have forgotten.

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Jane, when I first heard of mini's I thought the same thing!! I still believe gradual is better than severe reductions.
In other words, I don't personally breed Toy Poodles to Labradors or Labradoodles. I like the square confirmation. Which is also why I'm really excited about the Poodle breeder I just found. She is very proud of the fact that her 15" tall Miniatures weigh 15lbs as well, they aren't just "big" toy poodles! By contrast, a "big toy" might be a Poodle that is 11" tall but only 8lbs? That is a height that says "Miniature" but a weight that says "Toy".

I am already breeding Miniatures, with a 14" stud and an 18" F1 dam, and sure enough! Puppies are in the 15-17" height range. Did I get lucky? I don't know! But it's just how I would plan it if I was in control.

I am also planning to breed my 16" miniature boy Sunny to my 21" girl, Truffle for a "true" medium, in the 17-18" range, hopefully. "MEDIUM" is such a vague term, so I will try to define it carefully when I use it. To me, a Springer Spaniel or smallish Lab is a medium size, but if you think a Cocker is medium, then you might think my Mediums are Standards! You get the idea.....