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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was just wondering if the American Breeders are trying their best to develop the LD's to the Standard that is on the International Australian LD website. According to the Standard, Doc has some major faults. His tail is curly and his back is not straight, to name a couple. He is an F1B LD.
 

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I know that I am and the breeders that visit here are for sure I'm sure that there are some who are not and don't care to.

About his tail that is the teapot tail and when that was made a fault way back when it was decided by one person who wrote the standard back then. We the (ILA) and the (LAA) are joining together for the better of the breed and some of those will be re written I believe the teapot tail will be accepted but not desired if it is re written.

How old was he when you got him? If he was 8 weeks I think it would have been hard to tell about his back but not the tail it usually is curled up by then.

As a breeder we look for breeder quality puppies when we purchase them it is hard when you buy one at 8 weeks old though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Doc was 12 wks old when I got him. The tail was curled and I didn't know anything about the back. I don't really care for myself (or Doc), I just would love to see the Labradoodle be an accepted breed someday so I was hoping that the American breeders were being selective about different traits. If I was a backyard breeder (which I have no desire to be), I could have bred him and he would not have been a good dog to help out the breed. I was just curious.
 

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Hi Kim, you make a very good observation and you have given me something to think about that I had not really considered.
I personally don't want to see the Labradoodles become AKC approved...I have a real aversion to the AKC...however, I think that many breeders are moving toward such a standard and I am trying to comply.
At this point in the establishment of the breed there is so much controversy between the standards for Australian Labradoodles, compared to US Multigens and then you add to the mix the beginning phases, F1 and F1B...I don't see how they can really regulate the breed.
That is one of the reasons that people who favor pure bred dogs really hate Labradoodles...there are too many different generations. It is too easy for breeders to put any old Lab and any old Poodle together and get a Labradoodle...then they charge so much money for them...there is a perception, not always faulty, that breeders are only in this for the money.
Obviously, breeders without the expense of testing (and those who don't eliminate breeding stock based on poor results) will make good money...at the expense of their dogs.
But breeders trying to better the breed are incurring many expenses and are trying to eliminate faults from their breeding stock so that they comply with the suggested standards.
Still...I personally think a curled tail is cute...and I don't believe that it will be a fault in the long term.
It is hard to eliminate the curled tail from breeding stock when you use a Poodle because Poodles have docked tails! We don't know what they would have looked like.
Anyway...I think that since there is no official breed standard at this time, and it is still evolving...and since the ILA and LAA are working with US breeders more and more, the standard will be revised.
That makes it hard for those of us breeding before the standards are set and adopted.
For my part, I focus on pet puppies so my concern is with great temperaments and good coats...I want their teeth to allign correctly and their hips to be strong...but a curled tail...? Well, it just isn't a priority for me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hi Jac, isn't it funny that I wrote this post before I read your post about BYB and Puppy Mills? I guess it's my pride that would like to see the Labradoodle become an accepted breed. It bothers me that breeders of purebred puppies are up in arms about the LD's. I don't understand why they don't accept that most purebred dogs came from mixing different dogs together. Why do they think that we must stop at the purebred dogs we have today and not make any others? I understand that they feel threatened that the LD's (and other so-called designer breeds) are becoming so popular, but that's just the way it is. I do think it stinks that BYB breeders and puppy mills are in it just to make a buck, but they do that with popular purebred dogs too. I have run into people that repeat what they have heard from breeders about the dangers of the LD's and designer breeds and that they are really just mutts, blah, blah, blah. For a while, I was afraid to tell people Doc was a LD and just told them he was a poodle mix because I was afraid I would get negative comments. Even the receptionist at my vet said that the vet was worried about all the problems that LD's might have. That they might get the worst of both breeds. How ignorant is that? Do they think that about all mixed dogs/pound dogs? I don't know about the problems with the AKC but I guess I would like to see the LD's accepted with them just to shut the breeders up. As far as the curly tail goes, I was surprised that some had curly tails because, like you said, poodle tails are usually docked. I knew that the lab tails were straight so I figured it must come from the poodle. I used to have a Bichon Frise that had a curly tail and was supposed to. (I would have preferred Doc to have a straight tail, but, I love him anyway!)
 

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Kim, your posts are so sincere and caring...and thank you for taking so much time to think thru all of this.

The criticism that "AKC" people (and sadly vets) give about all the hybrids could be true in some cases...and it does seem like people think that throwing a dash of poodle in to ANYTHING will bring a cool dog! whew! :oops:

Sadly, I wish you could hear all the stories that we hear from people who are replacing their beloved AKC pet with another....5yr old boxer in renal failure... Bishon who's aggressive... G.Shorthair who died of bloat at a kennel during her family's vacation... the sad and tragic stories that I hear of some awful premature health problem have always, without exception been PUREBRED (akc) dogs! Not showdogs, but family-loved pets.

I will not say definitively that these health problems are always from inbreeding, but can we at least say these sad stories are un-natural and tragic?

I hope your pride and love of Doc eclipses the "spin" about our so-called designer dogs! As breeders of Doodles we've had to grow thick skin and broad shoulders but our doodle-puppies are worth it!

Even among Doodle breeders I have often said that we can be competition or colleagues! I love it when poodle breeders - or any other (akc) breeders will let me learn from them and treat me like a colleague. I think it speaks well of their dogs too, don't you?
 

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People are just stubborn and those that refuse to educate themselves are only hurting theirselves really. I really don't want the breed recognize either only because AKC and show dogs don't have much of a life as being a dog. They sit in cages at the shows all day long or on a grooming table for hours that part I do not like.
 

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What dog breed to choose

Hi

I thought I would through my two cents into this subject matter. I did a lot of research on dog breeds before I chose a Labradoodle. My decision was made mostly on what breed gets along with other animals the best.
This led me to Labradors. They seem to do well with other dogs or cats which in my case is huge since I own nine cats. My sister-in-law has a poodle, very smart breed and very easy to train. Her dog lives with other cats and horses and it has worked out very well. German Shepherds, Border Collies, Austrailian Shepherds tend to want to herd other animals, not all of them of course but I can not take the chance of having cats
being herded all day long.LOL Anyway my point is this a Lab & Poodle cross is perfect for my situation , I am getting an inteligent animal that is somewhat easy to train and very good with other animals. My cats are trained to sit, shake hands, high five, one will heel and a few other tricks.
Why bother training cats people ask me why not just get a dog. Well I love all animals and I love training them because I like the one on one time. So to the people who blah blah the Labradoodles and say only get pure bred I say to each their own and thank you to breeders like you guys who can provide us with the best dog for each of our own unique situations. MY LABRADOODLE COMES HOME ON SATURDAY YIPPEE

Blueteal
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks Maureen. I always worry that my posts might not come across the way I want them to since it is hard to get tone into writing. It's been fun getting to know you guys on here a little bit and hear about everyone's LD's!

P.S. If it's really best for the LD not to be registered with AKC, I could live with that. I just really want what's best for the dog.
 

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Kim I really like it that you have been sincerely studying this issue...and you have learned a lot! Good for you...I am so pleased that you are part of this group.

Blueteal...you have hit the nail on the head too! I get a bit uncomfortable with all of the various Poodle crosses too...and I shouldn't since I breed Labradoodles and Goldendoodles...but, as you have so clearly said, the Lab is one of the best "pet" dogs ever! In fact, the Lab, Poodle and Golden Retriever are among the top 5 for temperament, intelligence, loyalty and gentleness. It makes sense to breed dogs with such good qualities with a Poodle to get good pets. But when you start breeding Poodles to dogs that don't rate so high and that might carry their own set of problems...then I start to look very carefully at the reasoning. Still, I won't condemn them...the market will decide if this is wise. I just hope that we don't see them in shelters.

Kim...here is a very good site to refer your vet to...especially "Possible Solutions, sections vi, vii and viii and Animal Welfare. There are also many resources listed if anyone wants to study further: http://vein.library.usyd.edu.au/links/Mcgreevy.pdf
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks Jac, I always like to learn as much as I can about whatever I am involved in. I've always loved dogs and used to enjoy reading dog encyclopedia, etc when I was growing up. I've always done extensive research before choosing the right dog for me and my family. I think so many dogs end up in shelters because people get a dog that has needs that doesn't fit their lifestyle and they don't know it. They just like the looks of the dog and get one based on that. Also, they aren't willing to take the time and effort to train them and spend time with them.
 
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