[Jamie]

@Jac

your husbands mail was so funny I had to blog it :lol: Credit to you at the bottom. funniest thing I've read in ages

Jamie

 

[amckechnie]

just been laughing my head off at the email!!

so true

it is really hard work constantly but Milly looks at me with her long curly eyelashes and I melt and Leyla's precious expressions!! and all is forgiven!! !! - mine are now 7months - we had planned to get them spayed but hadnt anticipated it would be so early going into heat - we are worried about the op but know it is obviously better for health reasons, but they are so wonderful - if very hard work !! we might want to have more of them to keep not for sale.

does anyone else feel like this??

 

[anny51]

BUMP!!

I know this is a really old thread but I was searching backwards for assurances that Charlie really WILL behave himself for more than 30 secs at a time one day :roll: :lol: and I thought that others might like to read it when they are tearing heir hair out....I particularly love the 'Dog's Charter'!!!

 

[kirama]

Just keep giving the dog treats everytime it does something good, even if it doesn't know it's being good at the time- that doesn't matter! If they wee-wee outside give them a treat, if they sit quietly (even if you didn't tell them to) give them a treat, if they look at your food but don't make a move to take it, give them a treat. If you greet them and they don't jump all over you - give them a treat. I don't know exactly 'why' it works, but it does. Eventually they will just keep repeating the behavior that yields a treat. Just make sure your timing is good. If they sit and you want to reward them for it, but you wait until the puppy is jumping all over you, it will think that jumping all over you is a good thing and they will do it every chance they get in order to get another treat lol

 

[Jac]

Oh, sure, bump this one up! LOL...see? Isn't it good that I confessed to once using prong collars??? LOL

Well, at doggie boot camp, they used prong collars...taught us to use them...but now I am older, wiser and have many more dogs. I can tell you, without hesitation, that experience mellows a dog owner!

Stuff is just that, stuff...and if we want it, we need to protect it. We can't blame the dog for eating something we have left out, now, can we?

I want to state on this followup, that I am no longer in favor of prong collars. I believe that they can be used well and that they can be okay...but I also believe that they are not necessary.

I know that others use them and that they feel that they are fine tools and I can't argue since I once felt the same way...but I have changed my mind and I strongly believe (now) that prong collars are not required on gentle creatures like Doodles. When I think of the confusion I caused by using prong collars...my poor dogs didn't get it...

So, my philosophy is... training is mandatory...if you don't train your dog, he/she will learn some good things, by chance or luck, but will also learn some bad things, through our neglect. I have never met a Doodle that won't respond to training...sometimes we just need to find the kind that works for them...

It is like helping your kids with homework...you can help them and explain to them, and give them patience and examples and they will learn to value the process ... or you order them to do their homework and send them off to their bedroom to get it done. That is when you learn from the teachers that your child has been failing and that they have no interest in school...it is all in how much time, energy and involvement we put into it...not in what the child or dog is capable of learning.

Bottom line: if you have a problem with your dog...take a goooood look at your interactions with him/her...every waking moment. You will likely find the answer.

 

[lindamarie]

Bottom line: if you have a problem with your dog...take a goooood look at your interactions with him/her...every waking moment. You will likely find the answer.

BRAVO, Jac!! :mrgreen:

This is hysterical! This thread goes back to 2006! :shock: The person who started it has a 3 year old doodle now! :shock: :mrgreen:

 

[Jac]

I know! I really laughed at 3 month old Dakota!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[seazr]

Hahahaha!!!! Dakota hasn't changed too much--and I do confess, when we visit Home Depot we still use a prong collar and probably will for a time yet! --Operator error, I'm sure!! 'Course, I must say, I even more often, I use no leash at all with no problem . . . :wink: . . . but not at Home Depot!

 

[anny51]

Just keep giving the dog treats everytime it does something good, even if it doesn't know it's being good at the time- that doesn't matter! If they wee-wee outside give them a treat, if they sit quietly (even if you didn't tell them to) give them a treat, if they look at your food but don't make a move to take it, give them a treat. If you greet them and they don't jump all over you - give them a treat. I don't know exactly 'why' it works, but it does. Eventually they will just keep repeating the behavior that yields a treat. Just make sure your timing is good. If they sit and you want to reward them for it, but you wait until the puppy is jumping all over you, it will think that jumping all over you is a good thing and they will do it every chance they get in order to get another treat lol

Well, that's what I thought afer doing tons of research...but I've now got myself into the situation where very often Charlie doesn't respond to the command until he's checked out if I've got a treat for him when he does it...so now I feel as if the rewards have become lures. Sometimes he decides there are no treats so just refuses to do anything....or he smells it on my hand from being rewarded for the last command and plays silly devils trying to find the treat :roll: :roll: I'm sure we'll get thro this phase, just as we have staggered thro all the others, but if anyone has any suggestions they will be gratefully received :lol: :lol:

Jac - I don't think you should be embarassed about using prong collars in 2006....I think it showed that you did the best you could for your dogs in the light of the latest 'discoveries' and now you have moved on because you have decided there is a better way....what more could a dog ask of its caring owner?? Heck, when I had my first dog as a teenager it ws all Barbara Woodhouse and yanking the dog on a choke chain....I can't believe I didn't think that was a horrible thing to do to the dog...but it was the way it was done then, and few people knew to do anything different.

 

[Jac]

Sadly, Ann, the choke chain is still in use by many programs...thanks for your support.

About the treats....actually the word "treat" can mean any reward...food, love, chest scratch, ear rub, "good boy/girl!", favorite toy...etc...anything your dog enjoys because the reward for good behavior is a pleasant thing, sort of like we enjoy hearing "thank you" when we do something nice for someone...for instance, if I hold the door for a shopper, I don't really do it for a reward but when someone smiles and thanks me I feel good about it...but when they just walk through like I am not there, I feel slighted somehow...

So, you can vary the reward, it doesn't need to be a treat. In fact, that is the beauty of clicker training...the click becomes the reward (after they are conditioned to feel good when it sounds)...you might want to mix it up a bit for Charlie, don't let him know what is coming next.

My dogs LOVE it when we are getting ready to leave them alone...why? Because we lock them out in the yard BUT ONLY TO HIDE TREATS around the house! We hide them really well too...some we put out where it is easy but most are well hidden (in safe places in case they dig for it)...we let the dogs back in and they rush around looking for treats...this is only when we leave them alone so they start to really look forward to it!

 

[MaxandMe]

Oh, sure, bump this one up! LOL...see? Isn't it good that I confessed to once using prong collars??? LOL

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

ohhhhhhhhhhhh Jac and all others THANK YOU FOR A GREAT LAUGH TONIGHT!! :lol: :lol:

and to revive the topic ......ohhh i remember having max being 7mos old and Peanut only 9 weeks old
when Peanut was 10mos old i can't remember why but i did end up crying wondering what i was doing wrong :lol:
then she matured overnight and next thing i knew Beau was here and i had a 4mos, 11mos, and 16 mo doodles!! hhahaaa

NOW max is giogn on 3yrs old......peanut almost 2.5yrs old
Beau is with sam aka sdrudge and well Max n Peanut there are days i miss puppyhood TILL I read posts like this one :lol: :lol: :lol:

i now get to laugh at others with puppies pulling their hair out one minute and melting the next whenthey get the kiss of melt my heart
from their sweet lil devil doodle puppy :lol: :lol:

PS as good as my two are.........i should have bought stocks in paper towels and sock companies :mrgreen:

 

[kirama]

About the treats....actually the word "treat" can mean any reward...food, love, chest scratch, ear rub, "good boy/girl!", favorite toy...etc...anything your dog enjoys because the reward for good behavior is a pleasant thing, sort of like we enjoy hearing "thank you" when we do something nice for someone...for instance, if I hold the door for a shopper, I don't really do it for a reward but when someone smiles and thanks me I feel good about it...but when they just walk through like I am not there, I feel slighted somehow...

So, you can vary the reward, it doesn't need to be a treat. In fact, that is the beauty of clicker training...the click becomes the reward (after they are conditioned to feel good when it sounds)...you might want to mix it up a bit for Charlie, don't let him know what is coming next.

My dogs LOVE it when we are getting ready to leave them alone...why? Because we lock them out in the yard BUT ONLY TO HIDE TREATS around the house! We hide them really well too...some we put out where it is easy but most are well hidden (in safe places in case they dig for it)...we let the dogs back in and they rush around looking for treats...this is only when we leave them alone so they start to really look forward to it!

yes, the treat can be something other than food, in fact some dogs are not very 'food motivated', so a favorite squeaky toy, or a pet or whatever works becomes the treat. and as with all operant conditioning, the idea is that every time the dog does what you want, it gets a verbal signal or a click, then the 'reward' as time goes by you decrease the number of times the dog gets the reward, so that eventually the dog is throughly conditioned to continue the behavior without waiting for a treat. My dogs seem to like food treats better than anything else, so you will rarely find me without my pockets filled with charlie bears and buffalo or beef (dog) jerky broken up into 1/2 inch pieces.

 

[anny51]

Unfortunately nothing does it for Charlie like food!! :roll: This is definitely the Lab side of him coming out :lol: he won't be distracted by toys, and as for praise and cuddles...well, he feels severely short-changed with that...how can they possibly be as good as food (even if it's only a boring bit of kibble...goodness what he'd be like with something really desirable!) I know my place, and that's definitely below anything that can go in his mouth :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[woody06]

Wow this is good to read.We are in the process of researching doodles.I have to be honest I am freaking out a little by reading these posts.I knew puppies were going to be allot of work but WOW.If we go a head I hope I will keep my sanity.My DH and I grew up with dogs but I don't remember ever having a puppy.I think we always had a dog that was 2 or three years old.And we did(DH and I) have a cat which was very easy to take care of.But we thought it would be nice to have a dog that would be more interactive than a cat.Cats sleep allot.How soon should you start puppy training?Does the temperment of the parents have anything to do with there off spring?I have heard if you are looking into adopting you should see the parents and how they act.Is this true?I am sure puppies are puppies an no matter what you have to get through the puppy stage.

 

[KingstonTodd]

I have a new outlook on this, just having a baby (now 8 months old). You cant crate a kid. Makes them infinately more work!

 

[sheamusmom]

You cant crate a kid. Makes them infinately more work!

Amen Todd, although there have been times with my grandkids I've really contemplated using a crate, the terrible twos can be a killer, especially if the kid knows how to climb out of the crib!!!!
Puppies are easier, as long as you have realistic expectations, use the crate when not supervised during the first year, and take to obedience training as soon as possible, and use that teaching consistently.

 

[kirama]

I have a new outlook on this, just having a baby (now 8 months old). You cant crate a kid. Makes them infinately more work!

did you try crating him? They might have one big enough (just kidding)
As far as temperment, ask Todd- I have one of his pups and he is just a delight. He's very calm but intensely curious. I don't know about the temperment of the sire and dam, or how much they contributed to Beck's personality- I am more inclined to think it was just excellent puppy rearing on the part of Todd and his wife. Beck is full of mischief but he learns so quickly that he seldom presents a problem in the house. For example, I don't allow our dogs in the kitchen, and within a week Beck knew it was off-limits- and all that took was walking him out of there saying 'out' a few times, when he approaches the kitchen he now looks at me, sits at the doorway and waits for a treat for not going inside.

For training- I think you start the day you get the pup, the sooner you do so, you have established a relationship with the dog that helps it understand that you are 'the boss' (that is quite different than the whole alpha dog theory which I do not believe in) Here are some free books to get you started: http://www.dogstardaily.com/files/BEFORE You Get Your Puppy.pdf http://www.dogstardaily.com/files/AFTER You Get Your Puppy.pdf And here's an excellent list of dog books/DVDs http://www.dogwise.com/AuthPub/index.cfm

If you are going to put your pup into formal training try to find an APDT or CCPDT certified trainer. If you opt to go to one of the 'big box' pet stores for training (petsmart, or petco) make sure you observe a class first. I was in petsmart last weekend and stopped to watch a class and was appalled at what I saw. The 'trainer' was trying to get a dog to sit and was saying 'sit sit sit sit sit sit sit' over and over- the problem with that is that if you do that with a dog, it will think that 'sit' doesn't mean anything but that sit-sit-sit-sit-sit-sit is when you put your but on the ground. The same trainer was telling the class never to change the tone of their voice with the dog, always use a calm quiet voice. Quite the opposite of what most trainers advise: to use a serious voice when scolding the dog, and a very animated higher pitched voice when calling or praising your dog.

 

[woody06]

I have a new outlook on this, just having a baby (now 8 months old). You cant crate a kid. Makes them infinately more work!

did you try crating him? They might have one big enough (just kidding)
As far as temperment, ask Todd- I have one of his pups and he is just a delight. He's very calm but intensely curious. I don't know about the temperment of the sire and dam, or how much they contributed to Beck's personality- I am more inclined to think it was just excellent puppy rearing on the part of Todd and his wife. Beck is full of mischief but he learns so quickly that he seldom presents a problem in the house. For example, I don't allow our dogs in the kitchen, and within a week Beck knew it was off-limits- and all that took was walking him out of there saying 'out' a few times, when he approaches the kitchen he now looks at me, sits at the doorway and waits for a treat for not going inside.

For training- I think you start the day you get the pup, the sooner you do so, you have established a relationship with the dog that helps it understand that you are 'the boss' (that is quite different than the whole alpha dog theory which I do not believe in) Here are some free books to get you started: http://www.dogstardaily.com/files/BEFORE You Get Your Puppy.pdf http://www.dogstardaily.com/files/AFTER You Get Your Puppy.pdf And here's an excellent list of dog books/DVDs http://www.dogwise.com/AuthPub/index.cfm

If you are going to put your pup into formal training try to find an APDT or CCPDT certified trainer. If you opt to go to one of the 'big box' pet stores for training (petsmart, or petco) make sure you observe a class first. I was in petsmart last weekend and stopped to watch a class and was appalled at what I saw. The 'trainer' was trying to get a dog to sit and was saying 'sit sit sit sit sit sit sit' over and over- the problem with that is that if you do that with a dog, it will think that 'sit' doesn't mean anything but that sit-sit-sit-sit-sit-sit is when you put your but on the ground. The same trainer was telling the class never to change the tone of their voice with the dog, always use a calm quiet voice. Quite the opposite of what most trainers advise: to use a serious voice when scolding the dog, and a very animated higher pitched voice when calling or praising your dog.

Thanks I am going to read this book.I will also look into finding a trainer with that certification in our area.I also want to look for a vet.I want to research everything before we go ahead.Not only with a breeder but with every aspect.I want us to all be as prepared as we can be so there will be not surprises.I am glad my DD is 9.I think she is a good age and this will help teach her responsibility.We all will need to work together in raising a pup.And the more we know the better we all will be.This is such a great board.And you all are so helpful.

 

[deepnite10]

we were able to potty train Toby in 2 weeks..and took us
nearly 3 yr s to train the kids :?

it was definitely easier bringing the dog s up than the 3 kids..

 

[woody06]

Actually for me my DD was a piece of cake.She was and still is very laid back.Was a very good baby and get's better and better with age.She is also very respectful of animals.So if we do get a puppy it will be a big change in our quiet home.I just informed DD about some of what I have been reading about doodles.The nipping,and potty training etc .I told her it will be allot of work for a while.We will not be able to ever leave him or her roaming around.She seemed a little concerned about all of that.But that is why I am doing my homework.I want to make sure this is the pet for us.They seem like sweet animals but there is allot of work when they are young.