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Discussion Starter #1
I am all for positive reinforcement training but I have a question. What do you do when the dog doesn't listen? Maya is great with commands when I have something to give her....treat, toy, ice cube, whatever it is doesn't matter. When she knows I don't have anything she will not listen at all. I have tried training sessions where the treats are out and not give a treat everytime a task that is asked is preformed. I actually give them randomly and have practiced like that with her for a while. And she will do her commands good then too cause she thinks she may get a treat. Any advise will be good. I am at my wits end with this. She knows what these commands mean but will only do them when there is something for her to gain!
 
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Discussion Starter #3
Yeah I know tell me about it!!! Seriously though....those that have well behaved doodles what is the secret????
 

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Did you load a word with the treat? Fast word like "YES" or "GOOD"?

She should start associating the word with the treat, once the word is fully loaded, you can slowly take away treats and only use the word... my understanding is, some commands, like COME, should always have a treat involved, since this can be such an important one.
 

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I rarely give treats to Nicky for obeying commands, but I do give lots and lots of praise. I find that this works well because I can always praise, but I don't generally carry treats in my pocket and Nicky doesn't need the extra calories anyway. There are times, though, when neither praise nor treats will be incentive for him to do as I say. He'd much rather carry that dead bird around in his mouth than drop it!
 
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Discussion Starter #7
Any and all commands. Sit, down, stay, are especially frustrating since I KNOW she knows them cause she does them immediately when she is going to get something (which always isn't a food treat). For example when she wants in she needs to sit before I open the door. I tell her to sit and she does. Door opens. If I need her to sit though in the house for some reason and don't have something she wants she looks at me like "I don't know what sit means"

I swear she hit 9 mos and all her training went out the window! She is now 10.5 mos and the stage isn't over yet. I thought stages only lasted 2 weeks not 2 mos!!!!
 

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Heather - I totally feel your pain. Dex sounds much like Maya - way too smart for their own good. I have found 2 things to be somewhat effective: 1) Keep treating for the good behavior for awhile...really ingrain it in him. 2) Wait for her to mature a bit - Dex is showing improvement in some areas now that he is a bit older.

Just this past week Dex has started fetching his ball...returning to me and dropping it (instead of trying to turn it into a chase game). He tries to run down to get in position to fetch the ball before I throw it, but I force him to come back to me and sit and wait first. He figured out he's not getting the ball w/o listening so he gave in :)

Kirby loves food, but is also very happy with praise - I think all dogs are just different.
 

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I would go back to giving treats every time until she has the commands really down or for a couple of weeks.

Then start only giving every other command then every third...or something like that.

I will do a training session every few days with treats just to keep Tanner sharp and then when we are not just running through all his commands but just asking for a certain behavior, I don't treat.

Right now Tanner is doing something that drives us nuts.....when we walk him at night and we meet other dog walkers (when it is dark) he goes ballistic. He has never done this....he has always wanted to meet and greet every dog. Seems there is always something to work on :wink:
 

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NORMAL BEHAVIOR FOR AGE!!! :D CHANGE NOTHING :shock: Maintain consistency with short lessons daily using praise and no treats. It's a phase and I await Abby getting there with great trepidation. :shock:
 

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I agree it's an age related behavior for most doodles

also if i say sit and they don't , well i scoot my hand under them and then give praise
i also do the 50/50 shot whether or not they'll get a treat once they've mastered a particular command etc

keeps em on their toes :wink:
 

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we're in puppy kindergarten right now with ursus, and one thing our instructor said that might be relevant is that people are really bad at doing anything in a truly random fashion, and dogs are really good at detecting patterns. so it may be that in attempting to treat randomly, there's still some kind of pattern there that maya has picked up on. for the variable reinforcement schedule to work, the rewards have to be truly random.

what our instructor suggested rather than trying to treat randomly was treating for "best effort". so, sometimes ursus sits faster than other times -- only treat the BEST responses. that way, the behavior actually improves, and the treats aren't given out on any kind of regular basis.

-em
 

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I really believe different dogs respond to different methods of reward. Kirby is very happy with praise while for Dexter it is only moderately effective...it's always been this way too. Dex responds to food...that's what motivates him. I think 1) Maya needs to mature and 2) you need to figure out what motivates her.
 
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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks! I really don't know what motivates her. Praise doesn't work with her....she wants something for her efforts....I just haven't found one thing she truly "loves".

I will keep working on her lessons. And hopefully she will mature fast!
 

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Cacao has been doing the same thing. Very smart dog on your hands. The bad thing is I know Cacao knows it and when I get a treat and ask her to sit she will but she looks for the treat 1st.
 
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