[Tink]

I have a nice apricot Standard poodle male that's got a couple of chocolate littermates... His Dam was chocolate, sire apricot. My vet suggested early on that he was a good candidate for a breeder. So I kept him intact and had been looking for a suitable mate.

I recently got a chocolate female lab that has MANY chocolates in her lineage. As I love the chocolate and apricot colors, I figured this should be a good start. I was told when I got her that it should be 2.5 months until her next heat. The same breeder offered me a really nice black female as well that I really liked, so I bought the pair. The breeder told me the black had just been in heat. So imagine my shock when they BOTH immediately accepted the male! I used to breed GSDs long ago, so do know what to watch for... but these two snuck up on me.

Now I'm expecting possibly 2 litters of labradoodles at the same time!

The dams are both 5 yrs old and appear to be in great health and condition thankfully. But since it's too late now to get them checked, what would you all suggest I do as far as health guarantees on the pups? I'd wanted to get them OFA'ed and CERF'ed prior to breeding but had no clue what I was in for. I got them home and immediately caught them "in the act!"

I thought letting the male and females become familiarized prior to their seasons would help when the time came... instead I ended up in this predicament! Can/will females come into season unexpectedly like this as the breeder I got them from claims? Or was she simply trying to cover her own backside? I stress that neither of these dogs appeared to be in heat until I saw them "connect" with the male! I would have kept them apart if I'd have had ANY inkling. I used to know pretty reliably when my shepherds would come in and could plan accordingly. I'm really frustrated and embarrassed.

At their ages, I figured one litter out of each would give me a taste for whether I want to really pursue breeding again, but I certainly didn't want to do it this way!

 

[movistar]

I wouldnt offer anything less than a two year all inclusive guarantee regardless. Also I would sell them reasonably even for an first cross as its a first litter for all of you. I believe you can move forward with cerf regardless of pregnancy and I would speak to your vet about when you could penn hip or OFA. Be clear with your buyers that the dogs are not tested breeding stock. Honesty goes a long way.

 

[Tink]

Thanks for the response movistar! As you can tell by my post I don't plan to hide anything. I've been in business of one sort or another much of my adult life and know that's a sure way to defeat yourself.

Not that it's any substitute for testing, but GSD's are as prone to HD as Labs or poodles, so It's nothing new to me... At 5 yrs of age these females move great, so I'm not expecting any problems, it's just a matter of getting it done.

I agree that I can't ask high prices for the pups considering the factors we've discussed. That I know of, there is only one other VERY part time breeder anywhere near me, so my litter(s) shouldn't adversely affect anyone else's prices. They had one litter of GDs, about a yr ago and charged $350- $500 per pup. So I'm not expecting to offend anyone in that way.

 

[Jac]

Hi Tink,
Welcome...I can see that you are very open about what happened and that you intend to do the testing and want to do what is right...I would suggest that you continue to be honest....and possibly lower the cost of the puppies, explaining that the dogs were bred before you had a chance to do the testing but that you are still honoring a health warranty.
Then, as soon as you get the testing and results, I'd send a copy to the puppy owners.
You can still do SOME of the testing, vWD only needs a cheek swab, thyroid is a blood test, etc. So, I'd suggest that you do what you can, and be as open as you have been to this point...but, because you are selling pups from untested parents, the price should reflect that. (Which will help you if, God forbid, you DO end up with a problem and have to reimburse any or all of the purchase price.)
Good luck!

 

[Tink]

Thanks Jac

I know by trying to fool someone else I'd just be fooling myself, if I want to get into this for the long term. I was still getting calls from some of my customers 10 yrs after I quit breeding GSDs because they had been satisfied and trusted me. That's the reputation I plan to build again.

I tried to be very selective when I choose my females. I wanted health and looks, for sure... but temperment was equally important to me. I think I've got that. The chocolate female is a bit more hyper than I'd like, but she listens well and is in my perception, a real knock out. The black is more laid back, has been trained as a duck dog so has a lot of time put into her, and has produced nice pups in the past. From the front she has the better head of the 2, but the profile of the chocolate is better. I don't think people will find much too complain about in either of them. Naturally I'm a bit biased since I selected them. LOL

My SP male is one of the most laid back dogs I've ever met. He is rarely more than a few feet from me, and often just leans on me to nap. He's been attacked by the neighbors rat terrier and just danced around it rather than getting nasty back. They're all great with kids, cats, strange dogs, and each other. I think anyone coming to see them would be hard pressed not to want a pup.

What sort of clip is best for my SP sire when introducing him to prospective puppy buyers? I know his appearance changes dramatically based on that alone.

Also, if anyone would care to venture an opinion on where I should start in pricing I'd love ideas. I know all the testing I have to get done won't be cheap, and don't want to set a precedent of underpricing by so much that I can't charge a more fair price for future litters. Yet starting off as I have, I can't expect to get a premium price this time around either.

 

[gracielou]

Here is a picture of how I groom Johnson my standard I don't use him anymore but I still keep him groomed.

I let the top of his head grow out a little more now and I trim his ears a little to keep them even. I use a 4 blade on his body and a 10 blade on his Muzzle, feet, and around the base of his tail only.

 

[Jac]

Johnson is beautiful.
I like a puppy cut...different people like different looks, so you might want to post pictures of the various cuts on your web page.
I don't clip Chase, my Poodle, in a Poodle cut and I find that people looking for Labradoodles like that...they think that he is a Labradoodle! We call him our "Rasta Dog".

 

[ellabee]

OMG Johnson's coloring is STUNNING..................


And Jac - Chase does look like a doodle like that. He's got an *adorable*, friendly, approachable face!

 

[movistar]

I keep kenzie short or pretty depending on the weather!

and yes you are correct about the amount of money to test these guys, but if you bred shepards you are aware!

breeding first crosses I would think you could expect to receive on tested stock $500 to perhaps $750 per pup depending on coat and of course temperment as you mentioned and that is on the high end. Coats are a huge huge factor for a labradoodle and it isnt usually until the second generation that the coats become more desirable. They are more predicatable from the second up from what my experience has been. My thought would be $250 - $450 untested.

 

[Tink]

Thanks All!
Wow you have some gorgeous dogs!
I love Johnsons coloring... very unique.

Since we live in the country and Moses IS a country dog, I like the idea of getting to keep him in a puppy cut. He really hates having anything stuck to his fur, and a longer coat is just that much more work and aggravation for him.

Thanks Movistar for giving me a price range to consider. I do appreciate it.

This is Montana...

This is Canada...

You can see neither is underfed or lacking a healthy shiny coat. LOL
I figure it might help to show you the dogs I've been talking about.

Thanks so much for the warm welcom and help. I think I'm gonna love this site and the people in it.

 

[movistar]

its not very frequently people show off their labs here, so I will jump on the bandwagon (though we dont breed him)

here is duncan! (but he was born in Montana )

 

[Tink]

Oh he's a handsome boy!
I like his nice blocky head. I'm just not keen on narrow heads on labs.

Well, leave it to me to do something out of the ordinary... lol I'm glad it prompted you to show your boy though!

 

[Jac]

Well, I love these Lab pictures! Don't feel one bit silly about posting them...they are beautiful! You will have a nice litter from each. It will be interesting to see the colors.
My two F1s are very different, they are sisters, from the same litter but one has such a Lab build! Lexie is soooooo blocky and square. I swear if we shaved her down, she'd look just like a Lab (and she is HEAVY! Wow!) Her sister takes after the lean, narrow Poodle side. Yet the pups from their litters are almost identical.

 

[Tink]

Thanks Jac
I kinda figure without the Labs we'd all be discussing Poodles.
Gotta say I love my Poodle too though.

 

[blueteal]

Lab pictures, poodle pictures, cat pictures,
horse pictures.
We love em all!!! bring it on!!!!
Oh and Welcome Tink to Doodleland!!!

 

[Tink]

Thanks Blueteal! I love the site already! I've learned a few new things, met some very helpful people, and have jumped into some very interesting conversations. Just what I was hoping for!

 

[dixiedi]

Welcome Tink and good luck with your puppies. Your dogs are gorgeous

 

[Tink]

Thanks Di.
I got some good news this morning!
I contacted the woman I got my labs from and she said that Montanas hips have been OFA'd... she's rated Good. So she is trying to get the papers to prove it from her EX dh for me. The reason these dogs were available was that they're divorcing, so she has to go through her lawyer to his to get anything accomplished. I really hope I get the paperwork by the time the pups are here! That would save me some $$ and hassle!

Canada's parents had been done but she hasn't.

 

[dixiedi]

Hey Tink, I have more good news for you. Go to www.offa.org and you can get a copy of her OFA certification online as long as you know her registered name or her registration number.

It's a good day :wink:

 

[Tink]

Thanks Di, It would have been a wonderful day but I can't find the dogs in their records. I tried by reg #, and name and nothing showed up.
I also tried running their parents numbers and couldn't find any of them.

Arggggggggggggg