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Discussion Starter · #1 ·

Hi, I just got the email attachment...it's official!
Fancy has BBEE coloring: BLACK. period. :)

Sheba, is BbEe...that is she carries ALL colors!

So, it's as I suspected with Fancy, since her breeding with a male who's probably bbee produced BLACK/blue/silver pups....but it's a little better than I expected with Sheba, in that the report says she is a carrier of BbEe carries the black and brown genes and
carries the cream-white-red-apricot gene

one other thing: Our friend Bryan WAS EXACTLY RIGHT with his estimate!

:D
 

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You know, I hope to someday understand what you just wrote! :wink:

All I know is that Fancy is black...that she carries black. Period. (That part I understood.)

And, I have tried to study this stuff and I feel like ending with a rousing rendition of..."and a partridge in a pear treeeeeee!"
:lol:
 

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Jac, once again you have given me a chuckle :lol: :lol: :lol: I'm in the same boat, this color stuff just goes over my head.

I did understand that our friend Bryan was "right on", way ta go Bryan :)
 

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I'm up late - can't sleep and just surfing through all the forums. I'm not a breeder but I have a Microbiology degree and I understand what you're talking about. If you want to know feel free to ask. To see the crosses you make a grid four across and four down. One parent on top one parent down. Two letters per box. Eggs and sperm carry half of the parent's genetic information so each egg/sperm will carry one gene for each color - one "B" and one "E". It's like an office football score card - match them up one from the top and one from the side. This is the edit of the correct way to do it. Fancy is BBEE and the stud is bbee. The four possible combos in the boxes across the top are BE,BE,BE,BE and the four possible combos on the side for the stud are be,be,be,be. You get sixteen possibilities. In this case the only possibilities are BbEe. All the puppies will be BbEe only and that is a puppy with dominant black and dominant E genes. Since black is a dominant color it would be expressed most with some influence from E to give a shade variation. If you breed a BbEe dog with a bbee the combos across the top are (BE,bE,Be,be) and the ones down the side are (be,be,be,be). The sixteen results are BbEe-4, Bbee-4, bbEe-4, bbee-4. I think that's right - it's been a while :?
 

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Hey, Angela, thanks for trying! I REALLY do want to understand this...and I love the grid idea. I expect my dogs to get their DNA testing for colors back any day...so I'll make a grid and see what it says! (Although we just had a litter, so I pretty well know what colors they carry...it is still fun!)
 

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Ok - I'm up. Last night I was in a fog from my wine - but a happy fog! When you have four color options the grid is made up of four sets of possible combinations. So actually, when you cross BbEe - the combos across the top would be (BE, bE, Be, be ). The grid works the same way but you get color combinations of four letters as results in the boxes not two. Also b is recessive black and mixed with E or e would probably give you the brown. I just don't know enough about what those colors are and what the combination colors are. For instance - What does a bbEe dog look like - what color is that. If someone wants to list them for me I should be able to help you more. This is stuff I learned a long time ago but it's coming back now. I'll run the sample crosses correctly again and edit the above post if I can this morning.
 

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Oh one more thing. The results are possibilities per puppy. Every egg/sperm combination has a 1/16 chance of being whatever. With the BBEE and bbee cross - the puppies have a 100% chance of being BbEe. The BbEe and bbee cross - the puppies EACH have a 25% chance of being BbEe, 25% chance of being Bbee, 25% chance of being bbEe and 25% chance of being bbee. Depending on how the eggs and sperm float around you could get a litter of 100% bbee. The crosses just show you what possible combos you could get and at what chance percentages could happen.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·

Angela, welcome, and thanks for all your help!
www.vetgen.com is the company in Ann Arbor MI who tests the color DNA and they have exactly this kind of grid on their site...so you are exactly right!

I have a girl who has BbEe colors (black, brown, yellow, with yellow containing reds, creams and all colors in between) and I'm looking for a bbee boy to buy for her breeding....and then the PARTI gene isn't indicated in the b's and e's so that's a whole other factor! :shock:

Meanwhile I have a yellow boy who's Bbee, so he carries the black, yellow, and brown colors, so he's a good candidate for breeding to my BbEe girl, and we should get 1/2 yellows.

I hope this conversation helps others! I heartily support the small investment of the 'chromagene' test, cuz it has eliminated my suspense on our girls. I think I will continue to purchase this test prior to purchasing any non-chocolate doodles I want to use for breeding.

 

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Maureen, Just read your results...congrats, I think. Then I made the mistake of reading the whole post. Holy cow. All I know, after much deliberation, with the horses a black mare and a cremello stud usually produce a very ugly light black colt. I have studied this stuff too and find it fascinating, but I just can't get it right. If, however, anyone is in the market for very ugly light black colts, we are well blessed with them :wink:
 

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Your post is too funny LeeBeth :lol: :lol: I know I will never get this color thing down. I get so confused. My brain just isn't big enough to absorb all of this BbEe, etc. stuff :?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
crack me up! LeeBeth, I feel your pain! :wink:

somehow we were thrilled with the 3 mom-dogs we have, and yet they are all Blacks! (black family, anyway) When we got our first poodle I specifically and deliberately didn't want a white/cream.... I still prefer the yellows and caramels, personally.... but another chocolate in our house would've been nice! sigh. kinda like the cremelo x black mare thing.... :lol: The really great news is that Sheba and Yankee do carry chocolates, and Sheba carries yellow AND chocolate, so I'm excited to see if either of those girls are having babies in 6-9wks.

I try really hard to NOT glaze over with the color thing, but I usually fake it! (shhhhhh, don't tell!) :oops: 8) I think I'm doing good to know that the white fur between the pads usually means gray-to-silver!

 

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Loved your contribution, LeeBeth...and Angela, you are pretty darned good at this! (You too, Maureen!)
Diane and I seem to be on the same page...and I think that LeeBeth is there with us! :lol:
What I found out, after I got my VetGen results is that I will never have chocolate puppies because Chase's genes are recessive (boo hoo hoo) and my girls' black genes are obsessive, er, I mean dominant.
But the thing that I find really interesting is that the dilute gene was not even mentioned in the VetGen results and that is really what I wanted to know, how many of my puppies will be silver? Can they ever be blue? (According to Helene, the Labradoodles can't be blue because the blue gene is never carried in Labs.)
I did get the percentage of colors that VetGen said I would get, 2/3 black and 1/3 cream (red, or apricot) but all of the black puppies, except for one so far, is turning silver. (yippee!)
So, I am still as confused as ever. Not surprising! :roll: :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
hang in there Jacque! there's always that next generation! Your puppies from Chase and Lexie (or Miss Bay) will carry the chocolate color! That's what I'm banking on, with both chocolates and the parti gene in Fancy's pups! :D

The dilute gene can produce silvers and blues in the f1b's, and that has been our experience since Virgil's stud Bear carries it, as he came from a poodle that carries it. And of course Fancy, as a blue poodle carries it as well. At least that's what I thought I figured out from Helene's instructional teaching! :wink:

There doesn't seem to be a "market" for isolating the dilute gene, or the piebald (parti) gene in the US. But that could change! But if a poodle parent is cafe or blue or silver, it's a sure thing that the gene is there in the parent. Then just go back to everything stapp and Angela have said! :shock: (that's me fighting the glazed-over look) :wink:

Jac, are you keeping any of your puppies for breeding in future litters? or from this one?
 

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Hi!
Thanks, Maureen, I wondered why they didn't explain the dilute gene (Lord knows, we paid enough for every gene! :wink: )

I think that the DNA results said, or maybe is was someone else who said it, that we would never get brown with our girls and Chase. I was heartbroken because, as you know, I love his coloring!

But many of them DID get his temperament and sweetness and I am so happy about that.

Terri Lynn gave me a link to a very good site (free) that does the color matching for you: http://www.tenset.co.uk/doggen/indexus.html
This site even explains the dilute gene, maybe even the parti gene...you fill in the colors of the parents (silver, parti, etc.) and it factors all of that in. It was right on when I put in my information!

If I keep any from this litter it will only be because we don't sell them. We do have the two girls left and I am getting so attatched to them!

I don't think I can keep any from Bay's litter unless we are able to move to a larger area. We are pretty well maxed out on the doggies now!
I want to keep them, they are so cute and every single one is my favorite! :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
hey, what a great site! Thanks, Jac.

Did I miss it, that Miss Bay has had her puppies? Or what's her due date?

We're babysitting one of Fancy's recent puppies.... Lucy. She's such a doll! I can totally understand your attachment to the girls who are still there! I wonder if we're getting a little softened to a puppy coming and living with us.

I guess your girls must have come from a yellow and a black parent, with your having black/silvering puppies and cream-yellow pups, huh? At least Chase and the Girls share the yellow gene! We'll only ever get the black-blue-silver puppies from Fancy, but a chocolate-carrying parti f1 male would give Sheba chocolates, and Fancy should then have partis. At least that's what we're hoping!

I'm talking to 2 breeders with parti-factored poodles ( :wink: to Di) and hopefully we'll be acquiring a chocolate F1 male in the very near future.

 

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Hi Maureen,

Nope, you didn't miss Bay's puppies, if she is pregnant, she will have them in April, right when my finals begin! My dogs have good timing, Lexie had her litter during midterms! :shock:

I have not confirmed pregnancy with Bay. She is so lean and her tummy is so tight, I can't tell yet...but she is showing a few signs and unless something is wrong with her, she should have a litter.

Yes, Bay and Lexie's mother is a silver poodle and their daddy is a yellow lab, almost white. The girls and Chase both have cream/red/apricot as recessive genes, so we will have a few more of those popular light colored babies! They are really cute, but I think that is because you can see their dark noses and eyes so well. With the darker girls, it is hard to tell...plus they don't photograph well.

How fun for you to tend your puppy! That is so cool!

I got word from the woman in AZ (the donated puppy for service dog) and she said that Max is fabulous! I am so proud of him. She has been very impressed with his temperament, eagerness, and intelligence. I am happy about that!

Wowie, if you get parties, I will be sooooooo tempted to buy one! I love them! And... chocolate! Cool!!! I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!

This is such a fun business...tough as heck, but fun!
 
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