[Tink]

Does anyone want to go with me to beat on this woman? I know violence is frowned on, but this was inexcuseable.

I contacted the woman I bought the lab ladies from and she just NOW admitted


"Yes, Monty has had 2 false pregnancies before....She did this same thing after Canada had her pups once, so it may be another time for her to be doing this.....She had us fooled twice into thinking she was pregnant too and we had to take her to the vet and found out it was a false pg....So it could be again....She is a very dominant female, BUT, always seemed to push away the males when we tried to breed her, so if it was me and this is just my opinion from knowing her all these years, I would bet she is NOT pregnant....But I could be wrong...Canada on the other hand, loves the fellas so I kn ew she would be knocked up when you said her and the dog hooked...Keep me posted, but I would wait it out...
Watch her closely as she has had a history of laying on her pups too...."

This poor dog should have been spayed and she'd have not had to endure this again! Can you imagine NOT telling a new owner something like that? I'm absolutely LIVID for Montana! Can you imagine the emotional torment of going through this 3 times?!?

I don't even care that we're likely not having a second litter... but I feel so bad for Montana I could absolutely cry. She should have been spayed to prevent this from happening again. She shouldn't have had to live with a breeding female which just encouraged her to keep doing this!

How heartless can some people be?

 

[Raleighsmom]

Sign me up Tink...I'll help you go beat her!!!!!! I feel so sorry for you and Montana...whatever could this woman be thinking? And obviously she has no regard for either you or the ladies! Personally I would cut all ties with her, take Montana to the vet to confirm that she is or isn't pregnant, and then have her spayed......and lastly, give her lots of hugs and loving...
Keep us posted!

 

[gene]

I am sooooo sorry for what you're going through. I'll never fully understand people!!

I did a quick google search and found a lot of articles n false pregnancies and what to do. You may want to read some of them. If I can help at all, let me know.

 

[MaxandMe]

TINK what that woman did is inexcusable and she should have told you this UPFRONT which she didn't. I would not communicate with her unless absolutely necessary ( ie Health, shots, ect)

talk to your vet and he/she may be able to help you and/or offer some options.

hang in there!!! ((((((( tink)))))))))))))))))))))

 

[Tink]

Thanks all... As I said, I'm thrilled with just my doodle dozen... for my sake this isn't the end of the world. I just feel such heartache for Montana! She should not be living with a breeding female! Shouldn't have to hear Canadas pups wimper and nurse! It's just SO wrong on so many levels and how anyone who cares one iota about her could subject her to this 3 times is simply beyond me!

Gene, I've been researching this online all evening. And that's why I finally asked the seller point blank if this had ever happened to her before. Unless I'd asked I'm sure she had no intention of volunteering anything. She's lied to me for the last time. I am done with her.

Right now my concern is for Montana. I'm going to try to find somewhere to take her away from Canada and her litter as that seems the kindest thing to do right now. And since it's not advised to spay them while they're IN a false pregnancy, I will have to wait till she gets back to normal then spay and rehome her. No way am I putting her through this again. I just can't. I've already been in tears over it, so now I'm just mad. THAT WOMAN had better hope she never runs into me or I won't be responsible for what I might do to her for what she's put this poor dog through.

 

[blueteal]

AhhhhTink that is so sad and so miserably unkind.
Canada and Montana are great friends though
so will seperating them make it worse?

 

[seazr]

Oh, Tink, that was a terrible thing! Did you hear from any of the other breeders here on how to best handle Montana? Sue does have a good point.

 

[annabelles mom]

Sign me up Tink...I'll help you go beat her!!!!!! I feel so sorry for you and Montana...whatever could this woman be thinking? And obviously she has no regard for either you or the ladies! Personally I would cut all ties with her, take Montana to the vet to confirm that she is or isn't pregnant, and then have her spayed......and lastly, give her lots of hugs and loving...
Keep us posted!

DITTO

 

[Tink]

When Montana escaped she didn't seem at all concerned about being away from Canada. It was Canada who was distressed by it. I'm thinking Canada will be occupied enough by her pups right now that she won't feel the loss as deeply as she otherwise would. What I'm reading tells me that For Montana to be around a breeding female just encourages her hormones to keep doing this to her and that she's likely to continue to lactate and try to go into labor until the pups are weaned. That's a long time to be like this!

If I can find her a place where she'd be number 1 dog with no breeding going on but someone to play with and love on her, she'd get back to normal and be a much happier, healthier animal. One of the articles compared this to sending someone to the nursery to recover from a miscarriage. How heartbreaking is that? That's the point at which my tears started.

I emailed all my local dog loving friends to put out the word that we need help ASAP... so am hoping someone will come through for us soon. She's so pretty and loving that I can't believe no one would want her. I plan to offer her for the price of her spay and refund the money to pay for it once they have it done. Supposedly spaying her now would not be a good thing until her hormones settle down.

I don't know what else to do.

 

[Calimom]

My heart aches for you and Montana. How can people be so cruel? Montana is lucky to have you to find the best possible outcome. Cali and I send lots of hugs while you're going through this.

 

[movistar]

tink spayed females can have false pregnancies too, so that may not have fixed it. stuffed animals seem to suffice for puppies and then take them away in about 8 weeks.

are you sure its false? have you xrayed? if it false then that is better for you, less puppies and a chance to place her or test her prior to breeding.

sorry that you got so duped by a not nice woman. it is why I ask for proof of everything. I personally think breeding dogs without proof of testing and at that age is not a good plan, but it is done and I would imagine some lessons were learned, if not only by you, but by all of us that have read this saga being played out. Please be honest with your puppy buyers and let them know you have no confirmation of testing, a dog that doesnt seem to have issues is under no circumstances any indication.

I dont want to sound down on you, you seem nice and have been very open to all the suggestions you have received by the tenured breeders. I am sure you will do the right thing and I am glad you are offering a guarantee. Feel free to pm me with any questions

 

[Tink]

movistar, I am being totally upfront with prospective buyers. The ones from this site who have inquired about my pups can vouch for that. If I were planning to try to hide anything I certainly wouldn't be posting any of this here. I may be niave, but I try not to be stupid. Ya know?

Montana has absolutely mimicked Canada. Whatever Canada had going on with her pregnancy Montana would start in a day or 2. It kind of confused me because I know Montana was receptive to my male just before Canada was, so if anything, should have been the one ahead on some things. Yet she never was. What finally convinced me I needed to look further is when Canada developed a hot spot on her hip and 2 days later Montana started chewing herself in the exact same spot but has no bite or anything there... she's just mirroring Canada. Canadas spot got treated right away, Montanas I left alone because I could see nothing to treat and hers too is now "better". It's eery how Canada seems to be the one dependent on Montana, yet it's Montana who is following Canadas lead to this insane degree.

I had her checked. It's a false pregnancy. She had my vet fooled... she's very talented at this! I've already removed her from my website "dams" page; and am actively looking for a new home for her in expectation that being away from Canada will help to remove her "inspiration" to continue this. I've told exactly what's going on with her and what needs to be done, so whoever takes her will know a lot more getting her than I did. I plan to do the best that I can by her because that's the respobsibility I accepted when I bought her. I can't even say I regret having bought her, because it at least got her into the hands of someone who will try to do right by her. I maybe haven't handled it perfectly, but it's not for lack of caring or trying.

Until I can get her moved out I'll try giving her a "baby" (stuffed animal) and hope that helps soothe her.
Thanks everyone for putting up with my niavate and insane response to this last night. In mymind you just don't knowlingly do this to an animal and it kills me to feel I had a part in it even though I didn't know at first.

 

[Jac]

Hi Tink, I am just no checking this forum and found your link, I have not read the others so I am making assumptions from this link, forgive me if they are wrong...

I would not be too hasty at this point, I have known of breeders (recently and often) who have been told that they did not have puppies...and it turned out that they did have a singleton...so, I'd wait the full cycle to be sure.

I have no idea who your breeder is or if you paid for a breeding female, but if you did, you are entitled to your money back because she/he withheld very important information from you.

Next, I agree with Moviestar...false pregnancy is not uncommon...in fact it happend EVERY time that a female has a cycle and does not conceive.
My vet explained to me that in the wild, the dominant female is the only one to get pregnant and that the others go thorugh a false pregnancy in order to care for (and nurse) the puppies of the dominant female if something should go wrong...

So, what I am saying is that it may not be cruel or hurtful to Montana, as it would be to a human...it may be natural.

All of my dogs, from the youngest to the daddy of the litter, are kept from the puppies, yet have a real fascination for them. They want to go in with the pups, the want to lick them, they want to be near them...if this is what Monatan is doing, it is very natural and not just to the females in false pregnancies.

I also agree with Moviestar that stuffed animals are a very good substitute. We had a small lyon that had a recorded "roar" when it was moved, the pregnant mothers loved that lyon...in fact, it was adopted by Lexie with her first litter...I have pictures of the adopted lyon child with all of her baby pictures, many times she would take the lyon away from the others and lick it and lie down with her chin on it....

So, try not to be too worried about Montana's emotional state...she is probably going through a perfectly natural thing. She can feel your emotions, however, and will become very upset if she thinks that you are worried about her...

I agree that her mimicking actions are not normal, but then they are not too troublesome to me at this point.

Please feel free to send a PM to me and I will give you my phone number if you would like to talk about this...I know that you are very worried, and I really am glad that you love your dogs enough to feel such strong, protective emotions...but try not to be too concerned. It will be fine.

 

[Tink]

Thanks all, I respect your opinions, and do appreciate your taking the time to respond here.

Today is the 65th day since the first tie with Moses.
I know what Jac said about "All of my dogs, from the youngest to the daddy of the litter, are kept from the puppies, yet have a real fascination for them" is true. Even our male cat is interested. Moses too gets as close to the fence as he dares and tries to peek in until he gets growled at, then leaves.

Montanas reaction is just SO extreme! She's diggin and nosing everywhere like she's trying to find her lost pups. She started quivering last night each time she'd hear any sound from the pups. And the mimicing is just crazy extreme.

I know I'm a softie when it comes to my dogs. That's just who I am. The idea of them suffering at all just bothers me to no end. I guess there's a bit of the "mama dog" in me too when it comes to my babies.

I'll go get her a stuffed baby and stiffen my spine for the next visit. Thanks again all.

 

[Jac]

Hey, why not try to get a snuggle puppy for Montana??? They are puppies that generally are used to comfort real puppies when they leave home. They have a heartbeat and a "warmer" so that they feel real.
I have seen them on amazon.
I understand...I had not seen your earlier post, still haven't, but it is so heartbreaking to see them search for puppies...I am sorry that Montana is going through this...and that you are!
I still think you should get the price of Montana back...
These dogs have deep, loving feelings for their babies...and it is so hard to know that they are in pain.