[Shelbys]

Hi!

After saving up for about a year and trying to convince my mom, dad, and sister to live with another dog in the house (especially one that will be over 50 pounds), they agreed to let me buy a labradoodle. As I was ignorant of what a puppy mill actually, was, turns out I encouraged a bad practice by purchasing my dog from that place . However, I was lucky in getting Coco the chocolate labradoodle, who is now a healthy, happy, and fun-loving puppy at 14 weeks old.

In order to be able to keep the puppy, I had to be able to house-train her within 2 months (thankfully I've done that already) and she needed to get along well with our other dog, a miniature schnauzer named Lily. The two get along fine and it looks like I won't need to worry about having to get rid of my puppy .

My question is what I want to do if I ever breed her. I'd like to be able to give some pups to seeing-eye or guide dogs of america, but I can't find links on their websites as to how to do this. Also, what tests do I need to get my vet to perform on my dog to make sure she is good to breed (when the time comes)?

 

[movistar]

I think that is a wonderful and noble thought. You are obviously a nice and caring person!! As far as breeding goes lets see there are about A MILLION things you need to know and do first so not to discourage you, but first you need to make sure your breeding dogs meet the standards for the breed. That they are tested against many many genetic defects and proven clear. That their coat is desirable and their temperment is above and beyond. In addition to all that the costs can be quite outrageous. There are some wonderful links if you are interested on the cost of breeding dogs. It sometimes takes several litters before any profit is seen and if something goes wrong (sick mom, sick pup, cesarian) just to name a few) then the costs sky rocket from there. You also need to make sure you have breeding rights to the dog and its very helpful to have the registration paperwork for you pup.

It may be easier to contact the guide dogs and see if you might be a candidate to help foster or train a guide dog or perhaps rather than spend $10000 trying to breed to donate perhaps set up a donation in your name as I imagine that there are already several breeders who do donate quality labradoodles (as well as other breeds) at no charge already (I happen to know a few!!!) and I am sure money is always appreciated.

In fact if you are of the nature that I think you are, there are also rescues that could benefit from your kind nature. I know the poomix rescue takes applications for foster parents and of course ALWAYS accepts donations!

 

[Shelbys]

WOW! :shock: Thats a lot of stuff! I'm going to make sure I look into everything you just mentioned. What type of tests do you need to perform for breeding stock? I was doing some research on breeding, and some breeders test their dogs thyroids, eyes, ears, joints, and disease, while other breeders don't do anything of the sort, but charge the same amount of money. What is the difference?

 

[lieverdmom]

I was doing some research on breeding, and some breeders test their dogs thyroids, eyes, ears, joints, and disease, while other breeders don't do anything of the sort, but charge the same amount of money. What is the difference?

The difference is in deciding whether to be a reputable breeder or a puppy mill, and whether to contribute to the good of the breed, or to not care about dogs and just be in it for the money.

I can't imagine anyone who cares about the dogs mating two untested adults, and hoping for the best in the offspring. You can load the dice in your favor by testing, and by not breeding dogs that don't meet minimum standards.

The Guide Dog associations are going to require that you do testing on the parent dogs, at the very least they want to see hips, elbows and annual CERF, and will probably also want an annual CBC with thyroid panel. There is a new DNA test out for pcrd-PRA, and dogs with poodle ancestry are often tested for vonWildebrand's(sp?). They may want to see OFA cardiac certification, too. I had GDA's requirements written down at one point, but have misplaced them.

You'll have to consider the expense of establishing and maintaining a web site to market your puppies, the cost of a digital camera so you can post regular photos as the puppies grow. There's a whelping box to purchase or build, a puppy scale, worming and shots, spay/neuter surgery if you choose to go the ESN route, and I'm just scratching the surface here. This is an Expensive proposition! If there are medical problems or the bitch needs a Cesarean section, bring your wallet. And you love doing laundry three times a day, right? (Me either.)

I'm not trying to sound gruff or to discourage you, just to plead that you research this carefully prior to taking the leap. I guess your question what is the difference sort of hit me as asking why you should bother to test the parents, and there are Plenty of reasons! One, so that you will produce the healthiest possible puppies, that will have the best shot of getting through their lives without serious illness or pain. Two, so that you can market your puppies with your head held high, and honestly answer questions about health testing, and health of the parents. Three, to set yourself apart and build a reputation as a responsible person, and not as a puppy mill. Puppy mills don't usually go to the expense of health testing, so if you have purchased your dog from a puppy mill, you have no idea what is in her background, or what might lie ahead for her. Do you feel comfortable taking that risk?

best wishes to you, and let us know what you decide to do.

 

[blueteal]

I was doing some research on breeding, and some breeders test their dogs thyroids, eyes, ears, joints, and disease, while other breeders don't do anything of the sort, but charge the same amount of money. What is the difference?

The difference is whether or not they get my money.
My money being the dog loving customer who does not want to support
puppy mills or fly by night breeders.

This is not directed against you. This is directed against any
breeder who would throw two dogs together and hope for the
best because they think they will make a pocketful of money.
They won't and their dogs will suffer in the long run
.

 

[Shelbys]

Geez, that's a lot of stuff. I liked the idea because my grandmother went blind in her 20's, and later was diagnosed with Alzheimer's. She went through a number of guide dogs, and many breeds such as boxer's, german shepards, labradors, golden retrievers, and even labradoodles (in the late eighties, she was one of the first people to try out using the breed as a guide dog-sadly the dog was run over before I was born). She was using a labrador retriever named Wiley who was as old as I was, but like many large-breed dogs, Wiley was diagnosed with both hip and elbow displaysia when he turned seven years old, just after my grandmother died. In his old age, he is now deaf, blind, and may very soon be euthanized as he is losing control of his motions and can barely recognize people he has known for his entire life. While my famiily had to give Wiley away after he was retired from his seeing-eye service, we make routine visits to his new owners to play fetch and so on.

Wiley was a dog that suffered from separation anxiety. Whenever he was separated from my dad or grandmother he would rip things apart, knock over furniture, throw stuffing everywhere, and bite anyone who came in close contact with him. Being the kid, and having all the chores, I was typically the person who put the house back in order after he had thrown these temper-tantrums, only to repeat the process the next day, and the day after. I guess my point is that it's not a question of the amount of work involved, because I will do as much work as it takes to see something through, but my family may not be willing to wait that long.

I also found out that Wiley was a purebred English Labrador whose bloodline went for generations. His parents and grandparents were all tested for temperment, physical condition, and genetic diseases, and they passed the test for breeding. Granted, the physical conditions like blindness are bound to show up late in life, but is this just a rare case if a purebred dog suffers from separation anxiety? I'm not very good at genetics, but I know that recessive traits in certain species can appear to be dormant for generations, and then show up all of a sudden. Does this work the same with dogs? Or are there more factors than just a few alleles that determine personality?

 

[movistar]

I guess I dont understand what you are trying to accomplish. Are you trying to breed your dog from a puppy mill real quick so your grandma can have another guide dog?

Here are some links on breeding you may find interesting. The costs are outrageous. The heartbreak real. If you had to save to get the dog I would worry that you may not be able to handle an emergency. My own dog bit his tongue and it cost me $800 at the emergency vet. Crazy huh?

Here are some links you may find interesting on breeding.

As far as the testing Lievermom is spot on with all the tests and many are yearly and you have to have BOTH parents tested. If you are looking for a good tempered guide dog we have reputable Labradoodle breeders that have tested stock for both genetic and temperment that are already in the GDA program. And in fact you may get more information if you were to contact the GDA program itself as they can tell you how long they work with each dog and how many dont even pass the program to get placed. Its an excellent organization that truly cares about people and dogs.

http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/breeding/breeder3.html

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Flat ... costs.html

http://www.wonderpuppy.net/breeding.htm#breeding

and what happens if you can't sell them all? do you give them away and hope they dont go to science research? do you take them to the pound? are you equipped to live with 4 puppies until they are 6 months old or older while trying to find them a home?

lots to think about.

 

[Shelbys]

Thanks for the response-

I'm not trying to breed that immediately, I'm just trying to get all the background information if I ever decide that I might want to. Thanks for the information, it's been really helpful. On the issue of puppies, if necessary, then I am willing to train them until they are old enough to go into the guide dog program-teach them basic sit, down, stay, come, etc. And the pound where I live is never the place to take an animal of any kind; I'm not sure if the situation is like this in most places, but here, the average stay of an animal is one week, and then the dogs are euthanized because the kennels are overcrowded. I've heard that some breeders (in my opinion, good breeders) require an interview to see if you are really devoted to the dog; I've my dogs every have puppies, I plan to do the same.

 

[movistar]

its good to see you looking around for a career.

I think breeding dogs is a rewarding business. Perhaps your high school guidance counselor can be of some help for you as well. Maybe there is a breeder in your area that you could find that is reputable and would allow you to perhaps intern with them or clean up pens during a litter for some valuable hands on learning.

when I was your age I worked at a stable and volunteered at an animal shelter. these might be good places to start. when you get into and out of college and find a home to settle in you will know then what it takes to breed and what type of finances you will expect to have prior to.

Again I commend you for thinking so far ahead into the future. In fact there are many courses of studies for you in college when you get there from animal husbandry and on that you may find interesting.

And just so you know a breeder normally does not train a dog for Guide Dogs. They have people in place to do that and though I am certain that their criteria may not match your current situation, rest assured that they are the tops at what they do. Breeders simply give a pup to the GDA. I was referencing the fact that not always do you sell a litter of pups, sometimes they sit around and there isnt a market.