[JamieMU01]

Hi there,

I recently had my 6 month old doodle shaved to beat the summer heat. Now, his coat looks like it is coming in greyish blue as opposed to his normal black F1b curls. Is it typical for F1b's to turn from black to blue??? Or does it just appear to be lighter because it is so short? Thanks!

Jamie

 

[gracielou]

Usually you will see some white hairs between their pads of their feet if they are going the turn blue or silver what were his parents?

 

[KMO20057]

Sammy is silvering or "blueing" its hard to tell btu I think the hairs coming in are both tan and white... she is also 6 months and she does have both blue and silver in her daddy's lines. I always thought that it would happen earlier too but I confirmed that I wasnt crazy at our last MN romp and the others there said the same thing, she definitely is lightening! Hard to know what she will look like in the end!

 

[Jac]

Hi there...it is my understanding that it may take up to 3 years for the process to complete (changing from black to silver.) I am not sure about whether it is blue or silver...I have been told (by Helene) that blue is a rare color (if at all possible) because Labs do not carry blue...although I have heard about blue colored Labs too...so I just don't know any more. I always thought that my girls were blue...I read that blue coloring is distinguished from silver (and this is what makes it rare too) because it is not the coat that is blue, but the skin of the dog. Again, I don't know...I am just repeating what I have read/been told.
But whether blue, silver, or a combination (including the white hairs, or ticking, on the back) I think that the lightening is really pretty.
My dogs have continued to lighten and are still changing...they are 2 years old.

 

[KMO20057]

Just for fun I pulled out Sammy's dad's pedigree:

Dad was brown, his dam was black and sire was also brown, the next generation there is cream, black, brown, red, and then the next there is cream, cream (made the cream), black and blue (made the black), brown and brown (made brown), cream and red (made red)..... so theres no silver in Sammy's history but there is blue.


sorry if that makes no sense! :lol: :shock: :lol:

 

[KMO20057]

Here maybe this helps:

 

[Jac]

That is fun to see what the pedigree is like!
We had our dogs DNA tested for color...it turns out that Bayley and Lexie (our silver doods) carry black, cream, red, apricot...Chase carries brown, cream, red, apricot. He has no black but since the girls carry black and black is the dominant trait, we won't get chocolate from our puppies, unfortunately. We did get some cream/apricot pups from Lexie and Chase...but mostly we get black and many of them turn silver.
The DNA test didn't mention the dilute gene, which causes the dogs to silver...so I don't know much about that...I do know that our pups are silvering!
Our pedigree charts show silver/blue dogs too...but I think that people call silver, blue and blue, silver...so I am still confused!
Here is a good site about genetics: www.canine-genetics.com

 

[Maureen]

hey Kelly, what a cool graphic!
I love those kinds of charts....the other breeders here know what a color-geek I am. And Jacque mentioned Helene a fabulous wealth of knowledge about genetics. She's great! She was the first one I knew of naming the "dilute" (d) gene, which is what turns blacks to blue or silver, and also turns the browns to silver-beige or cafe au lait. And while I couldn't know, I would guess that there are MILLIONS of dogs (poodles) that started out black or brown and because they took a while to mature and for their color to dilute, they were registered as a flat black or brown, not allowing for that color change. I think I would have to respectfully stipulate that blues CAN occur more commonly in f1b doodles, since there are poodle genes on both sides of those 2nd gen. puppies. And I think that as more of them are seen that they will be HIGHLY admired in the dodole world, just as beautiful blue poodles have been sought out at different times.

My website has pictures of puppies that are in the process of going towards the "blue" color, if anyone wants to see it. Just go to the PUPPIES page and you'll see some of them are really black and some just don't see as black but turning more of a gray on the muzzle and around the eyes, which is classically where it starts on a poodle.

Oh, we own a really sweet blue poodle, and she's on my site too. And yeah, her breeder/owner registered her as BLACK! :wink: go figure!

 

[KMO20057]

Thanks Maureen... I will take a peek!

Sammy is an F1 so I guess who knows, but we saw a doodle at the romp a couple of weeks ago that to me looked blue. He had black base with tan coming through... I was told a while ago that blue is black with tan coming through and silver is black with white/silver coming through? I know theres no real consensus but here's a pic of this beautiful boy we saw:

Unfortunately his owners had just adopted him as a rehome and they said they asked the former owners if they had puppy pics and they did not... poor guy- who wouldnt want that BEAUTY!?

 

[Maureen]

wow he IS a beauty! And I'm not an expert but yes, I'd say he's a classic blue!

thanks Kelly

 

[gracielou]

Maurenn the best on color if I have a question about it I usually call her. :wink:

 

[Jac]

Kelly, Sammie is really gorgeous! I wouldn't be surprised if she turns light all over...it appears that she is changing very quickly.
I agree, Maureen is our resident expert! She knows her stuff...and she loves blue and silver dogs so she pays attention!
Good info, my friends! Thanks

 

[KMO20057]

Silly Jac... thats not Sammy! You werent reading well in your rush to look at all the new posts! :lol:

That is a very handome guy I saw at the romp a couple of weeks ago... but yes he's GORGEOUS! Sammys transition in lightening is not quite so apaprents because she still has the black on the ends of her hair, bt when you part it its all silver underneith. I think if we shaved her we would have a silver doodle!

 

[Maureen]

hey Kelly, it took FOREVER for me to look at and let your pictures load which is probably my server's issue, but your Sammy does look like she's turning. In my experience the true silvers get their silvering very dramatically and fairly quickly while my blues have been really gradual in the dilution. But as I said I'm not an expert! Our Yankee had almost no silvering at 1yr old but now has all kinds of silver and salt/pepper look to her face and coat. Yet our boy Rex, who's on my site, and I've posted here, was 9mos old when that picture was taken! So it's a limited amount of real-life experience but that's my story and I'm sticking to it! :wink:

Having said all that I can't wait to see how Sammy "clears" in her color!

 

[KMO20057]

Hi Maureen... Are you talking about the pics on her website? I dont have many that are very recent on there...

Here are some recent pics of Sammy... I can really see it where we clipped her face a bit shorter and when I part her hair its lighter near the roots-

Her front legs show it well because she got shaved on them for her dw claw surgery, but its hard to get on film!

 

[Jac]

hahahahaha Kelly! You caught me...I skim, I don't read! LOL (Wish I had time to read!) But my heart is in the right place and all of these dogs are stunning...!
Sammie's pics are sooooooo much like my Bayley! You would not believe it! I need to learn how to post them...after the Bar Exam...and then I can show you what I mean when I talk about my babies too!
Thanks for setting me straight...wish you could do that with the other things I am skimming now! hahaha
Take care! Jac

 

[KMO20057]

OK Jac, here are the pic posting instructions for when you get a minute to try it out. Its really so easy!

Photobucket actually makes it easiest... if you upload your pics into photobucket.com (its free to join) then just copy and paste the code at the bottom of the picture that you want to post. THere are three different codes and for this forum you want to use the one that has in it.

if you're using shutterfly or another photo site try this:

1. type [IMG]
2. paste the address of the pic (get this by right clicking on the pic, going to properties, and then copy the address listed in the properties window)
3. type (dont forget the backslash on this second one)

do this all without spaces and you should be good to go!

If you want to see if it worked just press the preview button at the bottom that way it wont post for real until you have verified that the pic worked.

Good Luck!!! I want to see Bayley!

 

[JamieMU01]

Thanks so much for all of your insight...

It is hard to tell though with my Onyx. His dad was a chocolate and his mom was a cream. So... we'll see. Maybe I should go back and check his pedigree as well. Its funny though... He doesn't seem to be "silvering" in his face at all, but his legs, chest, and back have lightened significantly since his shave. I'm excited to see how he'll turn out, but I'm just afraid his name may no longer be fitting!

Also, he is registered as a black. Can we change that if he does in fact turn blue/silver?

 

[KMO20057]

Hey Jamie, where did you register him?

I like the name no matter if he changes colors!

 

[Jac]

Thanks, Kelly! I printed it off...now if I can put it somewhere logical to find it when I need it! *sigh* I am not the most organized person on the planet!

Jamie...you can usually find the web site for the place that your pup is registered and they will have all of the info you need...if not, write to them and ask. I can't imagine that they would have a problem changing the record if it is more accurate...but you never know!