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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Some of what's on that site really doesn't apply to Labradoodles, but a lot of the basic breeding info sure does. The site owners attitude and focus are a bit hard line, but he's experienced enough that there is a lot to be learned from him if you're able to pick and choose what to follow.
 

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OY!!!
Seriously, if anyone is considering breeding I think they should get permission to take 30 min or so -each - and call me, Jacque, and Linda.... andy maybe Diane Hyler too....ask about the past 12 mos. and exactly what happened in our year. I've had 3 dogs fail hip tests - no matter what I paid for them or whether or not I am getting replacements, it still leaves me at Square 1 all over again with a replacement puppy.... and sometimes puppies do NOT all sell.... We've had good news too, but it would be pure wisdom for a potential breeder to call breeders and just ask them to talk about the last 12 mos. or whatever period they want to discuss. There will be highs and lows - usually expensive ones - in every case, I'd guess.

Having said that, some of us just won't be happy if we don't have puppies in the future or the rearview mirror but it still is a good suggestion.
 

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Maureen, I am so glad you posted that. I am in awe of what you breeders go through. It is not something to be taken on lightly to breed doodles or any dogs. I hope your message will penetrate those who are thinking of doing it for a little extra $$ or for fun. It's serious business..I hope prospective breeders will take heed and contact the breeders on the site before they jump in.
 

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Maureen i've done that talked to other breeders about the ups/downs/ onforseen medical expenses, supplies and YES what about unsold puppies and also failed testing after laying out the $$$ to buy a dog specifically for breeding which can cost $3500 +
also being there 24/7 and who can help out in a emergency etc

to me Breeding is not to be taken lightly nor do many make alot of money doing it, rather it's the love of the dogs that make you do breeding.

there is a considerable comittment to breeding and without proper research beforehand well that can aid in failure.

i am fortunate enough to work with my breeder down the road.
and get to see some of this 1sthand
along with putting up with numerous inquiries at times and take the chance someone is dreaming and not buying or changes their mind

lastly what do you do when you have others offering puppies half the price of yours in your immediate area?
 

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Maureen, I would be happy to talk to any potential breeders and answer any questions they may have. Money is the last reason anyone should want to go into breeding, it takes years to make even a small profit. Breeding was by far my most rewarding job I've ever had but it has so many heartbreaks and dissappointments, definately the hardest job I've ever had, physically and mentally.
 

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thanks, Di, I thought you'd be in there with us, in heart and in spirit. I still miss your doodles having babies!

And I agree, money can be ok, but it is NOT easy! Or if it is, then the breeder might be getting off cheaply and that has not been my experience.

Oy, I'm facing my guardian-held male getting neutered later this year which means next year I'm probably going to have to look for stud service! yuck. I can't blame my guardian-friend for wanting him neutered but it really sucks when your plans don't cover both ends.

There's just always an unpredictable factor when it comes to live animals. Poor Lindsie is dealing with that already, in losing her Sheby to a car accident before she ever had a litter.
 

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The ups and downs what a life breeding is, just when you think this litter will be the one that you finally make money on something happens, a dog gets sick or a puppy and then you end up with a huge Vet bill to pay. No if you think you want to breed for money think again before you start.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I think it's something you have to do for the enjoyment of it and not invest any more into it than you're able to afford to lose. At least that's how I'm approaching it.
 

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We love the Labradoodle breed and we wanted to make Labradoodles available to those in Rhode Island.

We had a horrible experience at a Kennel in Ma. that carries hundreds of popular breeds and we were ignorant. Desperate for a puppy but unfortunately we got a very sick puppy and after a week of falling in love with him had to return him to receive our $$ back. The memory o this sickens me.

It is not an easy task to Breed . We have been blessed with a remarkable mom in KELSEY. very healthy and her mate Kozmo. We were fortunate in producing healthy pups and being able to find super homes for them all.

When all goes right , its not about the $$ its about seeing children and adults with allergies or asthma or people who have had sick dog experiences or who have just lost a dog to old age, brighten their day with an email that says YES WE HAVE A PUPPY FOR YOU!

....And then see them visit and fall in love and take it home and correspond with us with photos and letters stating how much happiness their pooch is bringing to their souls. Ahh that is the REWARD we truly love the most.

...And if the worry of Kelsey being pregnant/ and making sure she is comfortable in every way with proper nutrition and making sure she is comfortable when carrying around that huge litter is not enough , just add the day she finally goes into labor , and we are their by her side , loving her, and then helping her as she pops them out, then jump starting them when the lil ones don't want to breathe, the annnnxt and nervousness, and pure adrenaline that rushes through me to do everything to make them breathe with Kelsey assisting with what she knows. WE work as a team to get them to breathe....ahhhhh the relief starts to show with each wimper that starts to sound out of that tiny little mouth....

...And once all of them are born , the constant worry of them being warm enough, Kelsey producing enough of her own milk to feed them all,
....And the worry that when visitors show to see pups, will they track in any invisible germ or virus that can wipe out this entire litter we have worked at keeping healthy not only since birth but since conception....

..As you can see it is an investment of time a lot of time and money and worry but an investment that we do as a team because Tom & I both know that the reward is worth all the work we put into our Little Kennel.
 

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Wow, somehow I missed this thread!
Boy, all of you are hitting home with your comments...but dang, Martha, you nailed it!
Don't you just love those puppies even before they are born? You feel their tiny kicking and pushing and wonder what color they are...and then when they come out, you panic if the mama doesn't start tearing off the sac soon enough...so you get in there and work with her to get that pup into the air and then I about die when she cleans herself before the pup! I grab the pup and start with the towell and by then the mama is ready...whew!
I can't tell you how many little lives I have jumpstarted...but I can tell you, exactly, how many little lives I have had to watch slip away, knowing there is nothing, NOTHING, I could do to save the baby. So, I cradle it and keep it warm and put it with mama and siblings for licks, love and warmth and watch. Then I try to sneak it away from mama before she has time to grieve...and then watching her search for the lost pup...it goes on and on.
Then you have the older pups...the ones you have cared for and loved, laughed at and photographed, the ones who run to you with joy when you enter the room...and suddenly, they are sick...or gone without notice.
No, this is not easy money.
In fact...it isn't even good money.
Tink mentioned that you should not invest more than you can lose...good advice...except that there is a certain standard of quality that you owe to the breed, to the families, to your conscience...a standard of quality that comes from testing breeding stock so that you know that you have, at the very least, given these precious babies everything you can to help them have a long, healthy, happy life.
If you give less because you can't afford to do it right...well, I pray that you never have to watch a puppy and a puppy's family suffer and know that you might have prevented it.
We can't do everything right and odds are that we will lose pups and maybe even have deformities...but darn, if we stack the odds against our puppies by fudging on the things we now know and the things we CAN do and we fudge because we can't afford to lose the money...well, we should not be breeding. The stakes are much too high, and it is the innocent puppy who will pay the ultimate price.
Sorry...but this really hit me hard...and I feel so strongly about it. Please forgive my rambling.
 

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I appreciate the link, Tink....
and the heartfelt information from all of you!
Good sources and great to consider everything involved,
before jumping into this more-than-a-"hobby."

I have been reading books on breeding....
two were recommended here on the forum.
Have read lots of threads here and elsewhere...
I don't have a lot of experience, but a little....
and I am so in love with doodles, I really think I
will breed them eventually.
I am doing my research
and testing...in hopes of having some beautiful dogs
for both service and companionship.
There is a lot to consider....
not the least of which is the expense to do it right.
Doing it reputably and with great care is my intention.
Thanks for all the information. I really appreciate any and all.
( as I am sure others do, too. )
8)
 

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Good work Jane! I know that you will produce fine pups...and I am here any time you want to discuss this! Please don't hesitate to call on me.
 

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Jac,

Thank you! I am sure I will call on you at some point in time!!
It will be awhile before I get started...maybe this fall.
Which, when I really think about it,
will be here before you know it!
(Oh, my goodness!! That's a tad overwhelming!!)
Sooo, now is the time to get my ducks in a row!!!

Thanks so much, again!
8)
 

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Jac said:
No, this is not easy money.
In fact...it isn't even good money.

_ (someone)_ _ _ mentioned that you should not invest more than you can lose...good advice...except that there is a certain standard of quality that you owe to the breed, to the families, to your conscience...a standard of quality that comes from testing breeding stock so that you know that you have, at the very least, given these precious babies everything you can to help them have a long, healthy, happy life.
well, there you have it! I have often said "it's good money but it's not easy money" and Jac is right...after the year I have just had I think I would have to even question myself! :wink:

as for someone mentioning that we shouldn't "invest" more than we can lose, ...I think that's a saying about gambling, not investing, isn't it?

The fact is that I bought a reputable dog from a reputable breeder and thanks to the mystery of genetics, she carries hip dysplasia. Bad idea for breeding. Another dog I had for 2 yrs ended up having hips that would not pass OFA at 3 yrs old (they were "good" with OFA at 18mos. old). So she was spayed and retired. That's 2. Then there's the first sire I raised...his hips were questionable...might have been "fair" but that's not my standard so he was neutered. What else? Oh yeah, I still don't have a "replacement" dog from that breeder and my 'puppy' will be 2 shortly. So that's 2 yrs of my life and breeding that I have gone without my investment OR without a breed-quality dog!
Not to mention the fact that my 3 yr old could have wreaked havoc if I had sold any of her puppies to breeders, but that's not because I was smart enough to not sell to breeders, but more because I was inexperienced; I would have sold one of my pups or even kept one myself if I needed one at the time.

Then, there's our miniature Poodle...well tested, and in good shape, but not "up" to the job of breeding to my 18" tall female without AI! And AI doesn't always work....so he's 2, and tested up the wazoo, cost $100's in AI, and STILL hasn't given us babies!

I'm officially, in my town, a "hobby" breeder because we only have 3-4 dogs in our home (others in guardian homes). I do count on the income from our puppies, when we get it. Oh yeah, we had a whole 4 puppies from one girl, and NO puppies from the AI breeding we did with the above-mentioned male. And that was at Christmas time.

None of this is because I deliberately put out a lot of cash...we just tried to make careful re-investments as a couple of our girls were getting older, and with guardian contracts coming to an end.

One of our girls did get retired, because she started having trouble delivering puppies and her litter size went down to 6, then 4 in her last 2 litters. So she's happily living with another dog and another family. The timing of her retirement was fixed, for the sake of her health and happiness, but her "replacement" didn't happen. So right now I only have 2 mature girls that I can breed this year. And next year I'll have no males because both are in guardian homes and their time is up, in deference to our great guardians. I had also hoped to get a male puppy from a breeder I mentored and trusted, but he left me high and dry with changing his mind and skipping out on the promise he made, plus one of the litters that didn't happen in the past year or two. Working with other breeders is a whole other topic or adventure, sometimes.

I don't mean to argue or refute what any other breeder has said or believes but I thought maybe instead of saying "call me" I would go ahead and list some of what we've been through in the past two years, while trying to be careful, but look to the future at the same time.
One more thing.....I don't think I'm really unusual! I have had healthy babies, and have not lost any after birth, in 4 yrs of doodle breeding! I'm thanking God for that. I have had some nice-sized litters and have met some great clients. and we still love those puppies. So I don't mean to sound martyr-ish at all. There are lots of excellent breeders who have tougher stories than me. I just think it's naive to say that we can predict what breeding might cost us, from one season to the next.

My father in law has raised/sold angus cattle in Michigan and he would say, if he was here, that working with live animals, this is what we have to face. That's my point, that we make the best decisions, but there's no way we can predict or plan our investments in the same way as approaching a mutual fund.

Having said all of this (whew!) I would have liked a few more breaks, but as I think of what some breeders have been through I'm profoundly thankful. I mean it when I say I'm not unusual in terms of the challenges. And I dread the thought of not doing this anymore, and not having preggo mom-dogs, or luscious silky babies. And I'm not afraid of competition either. I've said from the start 'we can be colleagues or we can be competition. I prefer to have colleagues.' So none of this is intended to discourage anyone either. BUT like Jacque said, if you aren't working to better the breed and breed responsibly with testing, then what ARE you doing? And if you are breeding for the love of the money then you are or might be cutting corners that you don't have to cut!

I'm forever thankful for the (Poodle) breeders who taught me about DNA testing and the screenings that can be done to not run a breed into the ground, but if only someone had talked to me about a year like I've just had! I might have listened :wink: ....I probably still would have gone ahead, but I would have been more thankful for the smooth sailing times, ...........
Like I'm thankful for those times, now.
 

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Very well said, Maureen! I have had one of those years this year too...so hard to imagine when we are wired and excited to breed our dogs...but it happens. Far too often.
 

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and i am forever thankful for being able to sit down and read every post you breeders put up since the forum began....really good info

yeah took a while to get through them........but well worth it!! :D
 
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