[kwcurtin]

Hi there--I'm new to this board and am looking forward to your insight & help with my 11-month-old F1b Labradoodle, Bailey. Bailey is a spayed female. She's been through a private obedience school - and I work with her regularly. She lives in our home with my husband and two daughters, ages 6 and 19 months.

Bailey is a sweet girl and is slowly learning to control some of her puppy impulses - which is hard sometimes. However, she seems to have a "thing" with my 6-year-old. She almost picks on her -- nipping, jumping, hopping around her, stealing her toys, socks, etc. Tonight, during a tug of war over my daughter's sock, Bailey bit her. My daughter has quite a bruise on her arm and the skin was broken. After the hysteria, I was able to extract what happened from my daughter. In all honesty, it sounds as if Bailey was playing too rough with her, rather than displaying aggressive tendencies. However, the behavior is absolutely unacceptable and cannot be tolerated in a home with young children who can easily be hurt.

Fortunately this happened with my 6 year old, who can move away quickly and defend herself. Certainly that would not be the case with my toddler.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can teach Bailey that my 6 year old is NOT her litter mate and it will not be tolerated for her to treat her as such?

Just a note - my 6-year-old does not taunt or provoke Bailey. In fact, she is a very responsible child who has carefully studied the techniques our trainer taught us for working with Bailey. Bailey simply does not respect her and/or obey her. Help!

Kathy
Atlanta, GA

 

[Craig]

I would be interested in any replies on this subject. I have similar issues with my doodle and my oldest son (9yrs old). The dog doesn't challenge or play as roughly with my 6 or 4 year old sons.

Craig

 

[NurseLeslie]

I don't know what to say here. My doodle is the sweetest, most gentle dog I have ever known...The only thing I can offer is that as a puppy, I made my kids 'train' Calvin as I did and would not allow him to ignore their authority. That's not to say he didn't occassionaly start to treat them as a playmate, but he was quickly removed from us and put in a time-out when I saw him start to get a little too excited. A stern NO and a time out should reinforce your intent. You may have to do it 10 times a day for weeks :lol: , but he'll get it. Good Luck! Leslie

 

[movistar]

yes please keep us posted... my 5 year old has always been the boss of our dogs. we recently watched Dog Whisperer for the first time and their was one on a white poodle named lily playing to excitedly with children. perhaps you can try to get some information from there. The way I understand it, its not a training problem but a psychological problem - that doesnt sound right not sure the exact word but its meant to be dealt with differently. The child and all humans are to be identified as the pack leader. Dogs want to work and want to please and have a habit of trying to assert themselves into the lead role. The Dog Whisperer finds the why and then corrects it and the results (on tv at least) or pretty immediate but of course require consistency.

We have several dogs and they all allow my 5 year old to do whatever she wants to them. She drags them to her room to play tea party, does their hair lol can feed them treats and will roll on the ground with them. Its actually quite comical. They range in age from 7 months to 2-1/2 years.

While I dont think this message helps exactly I want you to perhaps feel less frustrated knowing that is IS possible to have harmony.

I strongly suggest a trip to the library for a Dog Whisperer book or a day of National Geographic TV where his program is played or a google search I bet it would be a tremendous help. Sometimes we need to know the why to fix the what.

 

[kwcurtin]

Thanks so much for the feedback.

I will definitely find a copy of the Dog Whisperer. Bailey is a sweet girl, we just have to get to the bottom of this problem with my 6 year old daughter. This morning was much better than last night. Bailey rode with us in the car to take my 6 year old to kindergarten this morning and cuddled right up to her. I've put a call into her trainer as well. I think we'll do a couple of private sessions with the trainer, my 6-year-old, and Bailey so that she can see how the two of them interact. In the meantime, she's back in her gentle leader collar (the training tool we use with her) and it seems to calm her down tremendously. It also gives me a readily available way to correct behavior if necessary.

The time out suggestion is also a great one.

 

[kim26]

Please post anything that you learn about this. I have this problem occassionally with Doc who does it to my teenagers and even myself sometimes. We always make him stop and make sure that we are boss, but, I'm confused about the correct way to handle it because it seems like he just wants to play, but, it's not really an appropriate way to play with us. It's way too rough. Also, when he does this, he tries to hump us which I've been taught is a dominance thing. Perhaps he's testing us out to see if he can dominate us from time to time?

 

[Guest]

I've looked for answers to this, too. Same thing, Bella thinks my 5y/o son is a littermate and exactly the same thing with the arm mouthing. He actually had a bruise on his forearm that I was sure the pediatrician was going to question me about. It's like she pulls him because she wants to play.
So, here is what I found:
-Let your 5y/o feed her. Have your 5y/o tell her to sit and stay while she puts the food down. Have the 5y/o give the 'OK' command.
-Have the 5y/o tell her 'NO' or scream 'ouch' when nipped or with rough play. Have the 5y/o immediately leave the room and ignore the puppy. Have the 5y/o try very hard not to push the puppy away, just walk away and ignore her. (Very hard concept for ALL of us. There is a definite tendency to push her away or grab her collar and pull her away. This will be interpreted by the puppy as PLAYING.) Give her NO ATTENTION at all when this behavior starts.
-Have your 5y/o practice the training tricks with her. Sit, stay etc. Let the 5y/o give the treat.
I have to say this worked well, but when we stopped doing it the last few weeks, the behavior returned. Thinking about this and writing it down should help us get back on track, I hope.
Anyone with other suggestions, please post!!!

 

[kwcurtin]

Hi Linda--I just logged on and got your post. I can't tell you, and the others, how thankful I am to know I'm not the only one with this problem. I'm still waiting on an appointment with our trainer. But, she essentially says the same things you did -- let my daughter work with her on commands, giving rewards, etc.

Our trainer also advocates using a gentle leader collar and rope leash for puppies/dogs while inside the house and training. The gentle leader puts a bit of pressure on the upper back of the dog's neck and just remindes her that she is not "in charge". Bailey can still eat, drink, pant, etc when wearing it - but she doesn't chew or nip. The rope that is attached is lightweight and doesn't hamper Bailey's movement. It just allows me to quickly grab it and correct her behavior if necessary.

Another tip from my trainer - Keep bitter apple spray handy at all times. She said to use it after I've verbally corrected Bailey (or if my daughter has) twice and the dog doesn't obey. Then, she'll gets a spray in the mouth -- especially if she's mouthing or nipping. It's extremely effective and definitely gets the point across.

I must admit, many of these training tools have been collecting dust around my house and Bailey has gotten more and more free reign around here. I remember Bailey's trainer saying that it's been a bit like doggie Disney World in our home and it's time to reign her back in and let her better understand her place in the family.

 

[Guest]

Hahaha! Doggy Disney World! Yep, that is EXACTLY what we have here. Since Bella was diagnosed with hip dysplasia, she has gotten away with more and more! (Even though she doesn't exhibit symptoms, I still have been 'babying' her and letting her get away with murder.) :lol: OK, I see some changes for her in the next few weeks! Thanks!

 

[angelakj]

been there done that

Well - I don't know how well this will go over but here's our story........ Cody was one in September. During the Summer when the boys (4 & 5) were outside with Cody he would jump around them a lot. I was really uncomfortable about leaving him unattended with them but occasionally it would happen that they would go out unnoticed or I needed to come in. Cody doesn't have a mean bone in his body and EVERY instance of injury was from rough play. Many people emphasized that the children needed more training than Cody and I absolutely agree. The problem is that you cannot be right there with two boys every minute and when you're back is turned they will pinch the dog or play tug-of-war or run fast to get chased or whatever. We finally decided that we had to control Cody no matter what and that harmful behavior was unacceptable - accident or not. We had a very frightening experience one day. The boys and Cody had been behaving just fine all day so I let them go outside and play. I don't know what happened but in a few moments I heard screaming and ran outside to find Cody all over my 5 year-old who was crouched down covering his head. Cody was mouthing him all over but clearly not meaning to hurt my son. Regardless, it frightened and did hurt my child. We yelled at Cody to get off and while we were comforting our older son - right in front of our eyes - Cody bolted across the yard, jumped up on my 4 year-old son and bit him in the head. Again - this was all in play but my children were hurt. Even play can result in serious injury. What really struck us was that Cody initiated the play with at least my 4 year-old (don't know what happened with our older son). We decided that it had to stop or Cody had to go. The next day we bought a shock collar. I put it on Cody on the lowest setting. I did shock myself first to make sure I wouldn't be hurting him. I hit the tone button followed by the shock button twice so he would make the connection between the warning tone and shock. He jumped into the air and peed himself when I shocked him. I know this sounds bad but like I said - I shocked myself and it was not bad. Since then when Cody has behaved inappropriately we hit the tone button. He immediately backs off of what he's doing and slinks away. We have never had to shock him again. Since then we have put in an invisible fence and the tone alone has been 100% effective in keeping him in the yard. I was worried that Cody would respond badly by not wanting to play with the boys or being afraid of us. This has not happened at all. He immediately knows when something is unacceptable and he stops with only the tone being used. He is very, very affectionate and loyal with our family and especially the boys. I have also found that when children are afraid of something they will try to control it which was being acted out in our family with the boys being even more aggressive with Cody. Now they know Cody knows the rules and will be corrected if he breaks them. The collar lets me correct him from a distance and prevents things from getting out of control. I always correct the boys as well and we are always working on getting them to understand that they can't play roughly with Cody because it isn't safe for them, him or visitors. By the way Cody is now 70lbs. Long story short. The collar worked well for us. Reserve it's use for really important stuff. Don't give your dog correction for every little thing - just the major violations. I think his age has a lot to do with it as well since he's getting older. The jumping on them has completely stopped. I think jumping on them is so dangerous because he knocks them down and then they are defenseless and he thinks they are playing so he gets more aggressive. We would most likely have had to get Cody a new home without the collar. If it isn't abused, a correction collar is a good method for training bad behavior out of your doodle. When children are involved and they could be hurt, you don't have the luxury of waiting until a dog is older or gradually figures out the rules. Cody is a happy, spoiled doggie and he love the boys. We wouldn't trade him for the world.

 

[kwcurtin]

Angela--what a frightening thing! Oh my goodness. You handled it so very well! Thank you for this post. It gives me another option in training Bailey. I am sincerely grateful.

 

[Guest]

Angela, Thanks for your post. I have considered getting one and hiring a trainer to teach me the proper way to use it with Bella. There are trainers who teach this method. It is great to have someone here who has found it successful, if I decide to go that route. The main thing is that this has worked for Cody and your family and that it has saved him from being rehomed. Here is a website of trainers who can teach the system:
http://www.thatsmydog.biz/grads.htm
Here is an excerpt:

It may be hard to believe, but in less than 15 minutes, Andrea can turn a dog that takes YOU on a walk into one that trots happily at your side.

Give her a little longer and you get a dog that won't knock you down or knock down anyone who enters your home (unless you want that behavior!), stays off the furniture, goes to his special "place", and stays there until you release him.

He will even come to you on command - instantly, every time.

"We were at our wits end with our dog and were ready to investigate drug therapy because she wasn't responding to any training," reads a letter from the Hourani Family. "she would torment us and everyone else she met...biting sleeves, jumping, running away, breaking loose and running through the house (just to name a few behaviors). Thankfully, someone in our veterinarian's office recommended Andrea to us. We planned our first lesson...and in one session we had a new dog. We no longer have to lock our dog in her crate when our baby is out in the family room.

 

[Guest]

Another excerpt from the electronic collar trainer website:

This training method is the most successful training program in history with trainers coming from as far as Russia, Germany, Ireland, and Singapore to become certified in the methodology. A far cry from the old methods used with remote collars, the new techniques, paired with technological advancements in equipment, work quickly and are extremely humane. This remarkable program accomplishes in weeks what traditional leash and collar methods take months, even years, to do.

Graduates of Andrea's program provide their dogs with more freedom and safety than ever before. They can even call their dogs back to them from a half-mile away!

 

[Guest]

And my feeling on the subject is:
If you are using an invisible fence or would even consider using an invisible fence, then what could be wrong with using the electronic collar in other aspects of training where there is potential for injury?

 

[movistar]

I use electric fence (dogs rarely have collar on :lol: )

and I use the training collar when I need to.
havent used it on the big dogs in a long long time.
I think I used it when they were about 1 and we did the no jump on the counter, no eat the cat, no jump on people and that was about it.

it works fast. seriously. one beep shock, maybe two per behaviour and after that it is beep all the way. then it is just a show of the remote with a no lol and then nothing, they are just good or respong to the word "no"

such smart dogs! oh my dh tried it on himself first to to make sure it was ok!!

 

[Guest]

Ok, this is really strange. In the mail TODAY came a flyer for a free demo and evaluation by the trainer listed on the site above for our area. She was the one I would call if I decided to use the e collar.
:lol:

 

[JennyFrank]

I have to say that I am so glad I read down the list and came across this post. I too have an 8 mth old doodle, Charlie, who just recently has been snapping, growling, and nasty to children and other dogs. There was only one incident of it with children...my two neices (4 and 6) who were trying to pet him. Both have been around him before and I was right there next to him, so I don't know why he "snapped". Then, he's been nasty to other dogs (which is wierd because before now he's always been happy to see dogs, sniff them, and play). What is going on? I'm pregnant and really nervous about having him around a baby. He's so skiddish. Any advice will be helpful! Thanks for your post.

 

[movistar]

hi me again! you have to see dog whisperer.... seriously. from what I have watched it sounds like your doodle has been a spoiled guy and has established himself as pack leader. Dog whisperer says that is a no no and that YOU are the pack leader and the dog must exhibit calm submissive behaviour around you. Its easy to type but hard to explain exactly, but you really should watch the show. One episode was a crazy poodle that herded and roughhoused kids and by the end (of course consistency would be the key to the complete solution) the kids were coming in and the dog was not jumping or mouthing or herding them. It was a great show. There was also a show where a dog had decided that his mom was his property to guard from all people including her mom. He had to get a redefinition of where his place in the pack was. Very interesting program.

 

[JennyFrank]

I've seen a few shows and am amazed at the results. I guess I'm just nervous to be with him around the girls again (my neices). However, I'm from a close knit family and we are always with my sister and her kids..so what do I do?

 

[kwcurtin]

Hi Jenny--I really feel for you. I would have a very hard time as well.

I can definitely tell you that the gentle leader collar (recommended by Bailey's trainer) has really helped. There is a strap that goes over the dog's muzzle (it doesn't prevent the dog from eating, drinking or panting). It really restrict's Bailey's ability to get her mouth open wide enough to bite.

Also, the strap that fits across the top of the neck delivers gentle pressure that lets the dog know that he/she is not "in charge."

Bailey wears her gentle leader while in the house & around the children. I have a rope leash that is attached and she drags it everywhere. If she acts up, I can quickly grab the leash & give it a tug. It gets her attention. Then she's off to time out.

When your neices are around, I would have your dog in the gentle leader, with a leash, and next to you at all times. If I have company, many times I'll tie the leash to my belt. Not the most comfortable in the world for me, but it keeps Bailey in plain view and at my side at all times.

At least then I can stay on top of her behavior.

I hope this helps some.

Kathy