[Maureen]

Hi, I've learned a lot from another breeder who definitely researches genetics, but the "F" terms are set by the scientific community who have worked on hybrids from corn to onions, to any two breeds or species crossing or breeding.

F1 is the first cross: 50/50 so to speak
F1b is a f1 x parent breed = f1b (75/25 of the 2 breeds)
F2 might refer to a 2nd generation, and f1b is a 2nd generation hybrid but not a true F2, as defined by the genetic labeling.
F2 in the truest or stricted terms is F1 x F1 offspring.

I heard that a 3rd generation doodle, from F1 x F1b or F1b x F1b is called an F2b? I think I would just call it a 3rd generation, and explain the parentage to our clients.

(anyone glazed over yet? :shock: )

Laypeople use the term F2 to refer to F1b but it is misleading in its literal terminology.

 

[Maureen]

Hi again, we did have an F2 litter once- that's an F1 x F1 batch of babies. As happens in a genetic cross, we got a VERY Labby puppy on one end of the spectrum and an extremely poodley pup on the other end. The Labby puppy (or puppies) that you get in this cross is not very valuable but the ones in the middle or at the poodley side of the breeding are adorable. Have I posted "Sully" since the gallery got fixed? If not I'll post him, he's a really pretty F2. But his brother Riley looks exactly like a full-blooded Lab.

 

[Maureen]

Unfortunately I agree that this whole thing IS and CAN BE confusing, but the importance is to know the heritage more than the LABEL. Don't you agree?

I am not sure, but I wonder if breeders somewhere in the Doodle breeding history have tried CALLING different generations something with or without knowing what the TRUE hybrid language would call that hybrid or cross-breeding? I'm not sure. I've seen these types of things hashed out on breeder forums where someone knew what the correct scientific label is, and what someone else THINKS a doodle generation is called.

In other words (*in my opinion), there shouldn't be any difference between the UK and the US and anyone about what an F1xF1 would be called, or an F1 x F1b. But there seems to be people who are uninformed about the "rules" of what a hybrid generation is called have been using whatever labels they want to.
So that just adds to the confusion!

When (God willing) we have f1xf1b puppies, or f1b x f1b puppies I intend to EXPLAIN to people what that generation is, whether or not I find out what the "correct" label is.

 

[Maureen]

That's about all I know about the scheme...everyone keeps tweeking it too, and just when I think I might have it, it changes again!

Jacque, you have just about made my point! (and Sarah's) It's a cliche, but the saying goes "it is what it is". :wink:
I have heard people call F1b an F2, and ARGUE with me that I was wrong... at that point I withdraw from the conversation, because it's not about what I think or being right.

Breeders can't invent labels for their dogs --I'm not sure if the original Aussie breeders did or not-- but the hybrid/generation labels were set long before Poodles were crossed with Labs, or anything else!

CALLING something a hamburger doesn't make it a hamburger, ya know? :wink: