Labradoodle Forums banner
1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
294 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
in all of your experience, what kind of coat will a F2 have, from F1 to F1 labradoodle, I hope to have a curly coat
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,366 Posts
Most breeders don't breed F1 to F1 but I have heard that you get what some call a split litter half will look more like the Poodle and the others will look more like Labs. Maureen had a litter like this maybe she can give a better idea for you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,254 Posts
Hi Lauren, I believe an F2 can be several different combinations. F1xF1 breeding, F1xF1B breeding and a multi-genxF1B. All of these combinations are considered an F2. It can get so confusing :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
I think in the UK we probably work out generations slightly differently, as over here we would cross two F1's to get an F2. Does get confusing :roll:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,810 Posts
Hi, I've learned a lot from another breeder who definitely researches genetics, but the "F" terms are set by the scientific community who have worked on hybrids from corn to onions, to any two breeds or species crossing or breeding.

F1 is the first cross: 50/50 so to speak
F1b is a f1 x parent breed = f1b (75/25 of the 2 breeds)
F2 might refer to a 2nd generation, and f1b is a 2nd generation hybrid but not a true F2, as defined by the genetic labeling.
F2 in the truest or stricted terms is F1 x F1 offspring.

I heard that a 3rd generation doodle, from F1 x F1b or F1b x F1b is called an F2b? I think I would just call it a 3rd generation, and explain the parentage to our clients. :)

(anyone glazed over yet? :shock: )

Laypeople use the term F2 to refer to F1b but it is misleading in its literal terminology.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,810 Posts
Hi again, we did have an F2 litter once- that's an F1 x F1 batch of babies. As happens in a genetic cross, we got a VERY Labby puppy on one end of the spectrum and an extremely poodley pup on the other end. The Labby puppy (or puppies) that you get in this cross is not very valuable but the ones in the middle or at the poodley side of the breeding are adorable. Have I posted "Sully" since the gallery got fixed? If not I'll post him, he's a really pretty F2. But his brother Riley looks exactly like a full-blooded Lab. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,810 Posts
Unfortunately I agree that this whole thing IS and CAN BE confusing, but the importance is to know the heritage more than the LABEL. Don't you agree?

I am not sure, but I wonder if breeders somewhere in the Doodle breeding history have tried CALLING different generations something with or without knowing what the TRUE hybrid language would call that hybrid or cross-breeding? I'm not sure. I've seen these types of things hashed out on breeder forums where someone knew what the correct scientific label is, and what someone else THINKS a doodle generation is called.

In other words (*in my opinion), there shouldn't be any difference between the UK and the US and anyone about what an F1xF1 would be called, or an F1 x F1b. But there seems to be people who are uninformed about the "rules" of what a hybrid generation is called have been using whatever labels they want to.
:oops: So that just adds to the confusion!

When (God willing) we have f1xf1b puppies, or f1b x f1b puppies I intend to EXPLAIN to people what that generation is, whether or not I find out what the "correct" label is. :D

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
401 Posts
I agree because say an f1 x f1 is bred and someone calls it an f2 and the buyer thinks an f1b x f1 is an f2 and that is what they want, then they get the wrong thing. just my opinion
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,243 Posts
Okay, you have me confused! LOL
But, I do believe, Sarah, that the B is only put in when you actually use a parent breed to back cross, so if you are breeding an F1 and an F1B you are not backcrossing to the parent breed. That's about all I know about the scheme...everyone keeps tweeking it too, and just when I think I might have it, it changes again!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,810 Posts
Jac said:
That's about all I know about the scheme...everyone keeps tweeking it too, and just when I think I might have it, it changes again!
Jacque, you have just about made my point! (and Sarah's) It's a cliche, but the saying goes "it is what it is". :wink:
I have heard people call F1b an F2, and ARGUE with me that I was wrong... at that point I withdraw from the conversation, because it's not about what I think or being right.

Breeders can't invent labels for their dogs --I'm not sure if the original Aussie breeders did or not-- but the hybrid/generation labels were set long before Poodles were crossed with Labs, or anything else!

CALLING something a hamburger doesn't make it a hamburger, ya know? :wink:

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
215 Posts
I took a genetics class at Purdue University my freshman year in college. You guys are right- these terms have been used long before dog breeding! We used corn and other plants. In true genetics- an F1 x F1 = F2. Jac is right about the b meaning a backcross to the parent generation (in our case, a poodle). So if you breed an F1B x F1, it is not an F2B because you're not backcrossing, even though that's what pretty much every doodle breeder calls it. If I have reviewed my information correctly, a true F2B would be an F1B bred back to a poodle. Breeding an F1B to an F1 just doesn't really happen in anything other than doodles, which is why I couldn't find any information about it in my genetics books. Same with breeding F1B to F1B- that just doesn't normally happen because it is pointless in genetic testing. I guess people are going to call them whatever they want! I wish it were less confusing! They are second generation, but I guess all you breeders are just going to have to explain it!

Bridget, Summer, and Duke
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top