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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I feel that it is important for me to speak up regarding back yard breeders here...It is not my intention to discount the absolute love and devotion that the families have when they buy puppies born under the conditions...but I want to say that my concern is for the long term health of the puppies that these breeders are creating.
I have a moral and ethical obligation to my puppies and to furthering the high standards of responsible breeding practices.
I am concerned that those who buy puppies (especially after reading this forum) are turning more and more to back yard breeders and puppy mills for their puppies. This is very disturbing to me.
You see, as breeders we have a responsibility to our dogs. As Labradoodle owners we have a responsibility to promote good health and responsible breeding practices.
BYBs and PMs don't take the necessary steps to test their animals, they don't carefully select their breeding stock, they don't socialize their puppies, and sometimes the living conditions are deplorable...and whether the health issues come about in 2 weeks, 2 years or 10 years...the risk to the puppy is greater with a BYB/PM organization than it is with a responsible breeding operation.
For me, it is not a matter of trying to squeeze out the competition...it is a matter of caring deeply for the health of the puppies produced...therefore, I simply can't be happy to read about the number of BYBs and PMs gaining support from people on this forum.
I do hope that all of the puppies will be helathy and strong for their entire lives...but I just can't sit back and support the breeders who have no concern or, perhaps, limited knowledge...those who produce puppies who will end up with a greater chance of serious illness or a lifetime of suffering.
I honestly believe that you can pay your money up front, and support breeders who are testing their breeding stock, who offer long-term support and warranties...or you can gamble that a BYB/PM will produce a healthy puppy...and, more than likely, pay your money later on...when you discover that your beloved pet is suffering from some serious genetic disease that responsible breeders are trying to eliminate.
While I am always happy to read the joy in the notices of new puppies, I am deeply disturbed by the overwhelming acceptance of the lax and dangerous practices of back yard breeders and puppy mills.
I apologize if this offends someone...and I am in no way saying that these puppies don't deserve love (of course they do)...but I am saying that by supporting this type of breeding practice, you contribute to the evergrowing problem...Back yard breeders and puppy mills are making a dangerous gamble with the lives of dogs.
 

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I can't add much to what you have said except your right of course. But I do believe that most buy because the price is right not thinking as you said about the future health problems that might arise. Also some of these breeders will raise a few litters and get tired of the messes and drop out and that leaves the buyers with no help if something happens down the road.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks, Linda, I DO understand that buying a cute puppy for far less money is a huge motivational factor...and I know that for some people, they could NEVER afford a puppy from a reputable breeder because the price is much too high. (Although many breeders will work with GOOD families to help place a puppy...)
I am not blaming puppy buyers. I recognize the realities of this problem. I just have a very hard time when people come on forums like this and talk about buying from a PM/BYB (in glowing terms) because that helps to "advertise" these operations...and leads other unsuspecting buyers to them...and the puppies ultimately suffer.
And, my point is that if buyers can't afford the $1000-$2000 price tag for a healthy puppy from a good breeder...I wish that they would consider what they will do when that puppy gets a serious health issue and their "breeder" won't even talk to them...where will they get the thousands of dollars necessary to ease the pain of genetic disease or, more importantly, to save the life of their dog?
If they buy from a reputable breeder, and (God forbid) something happens...at least that breeder will be there for them, to help with emotional support, suggestions, and even money to get that baby the best possible care.
PM/BYBs will leave the buyer out in the cold...and the pup may not survive. It breaks my heart.

I want to be clear about something here...in my opinion, a hobby breeder (as Maureen defines herself) is NOT identified as a BYB...the difference is that BYBs and PMs take ANY 2 dogs and put them together and create litters and sell those puppies for low prices (because they can...they have not put any $$ into the health and safety of their program so they don't have operation costs.)
Just because a person keeps a few dogs in their home, as pets, and they breed the dogs to produce puppies...they are NOT BYBs or PMs...because they love their dogs, socialize the puppies, keep their living area clean. They play with the puppies, they get vet care and the best foods and they usually pay huge fees to make sure that the puppies come from the best possible parents.

In my opinion, THESE are the breeders who deserve to survive in this business...and I personally would like nothing more than to see every PM and BYB run out of town and put out of business...which will not happen when innocent buyers fall in love with their cute, cuddly puppy and throw caution to the wind. This is why I posted this...in an effort to educate the buyers and to save the animals.
 

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I have heard about two back yard breeders this week in the maritimes. Hard to believe. One girl told me she went to visit to buy a pug and... there were 40 adult dogs some with pups all over the house, food on the counter with cats eating it, and feces and urine all over the place. The other one breed Aussies and breed 17 different breeds and sold them all to one person who distributed them! He didnt even know the proper terminology of the different colors (and i think there is only 5 recognized colors). Scary.
 

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Molly that is so sad is there anyway you can turn them in to be checked out? :x

Jac your right to be hammering in on this topic I've noticed not many have posted on it probably because you are so good about what you write.
 

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Jac, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I stated in one of my posts that I bought from a BYB but, in reality, I think she is a hobby breeder. She's been breeding standard poodles for several years for temperament and health, but, not necessarily for showing. I liked her website, she was local and in my case, the price was right. She sold all of her pups for $1500 each, but, after they are 12 wks old, if there are any left she has an auction with a minimum bid. Doc happened to be the only puppy left and I got him for a good price because there was only one other person bidding and she dropped out early. I went to meet Doc and his parents and one of his siblings before the auction to be sure he would be a pup I wanted. She did give me a two year health warranty against genetic defects. It's hard to know who to buy from. Just because the pup is expensive, doesn't mean that he is going to be from good stock or a conscientious breeder either. I checked out some puppies that were expensive and the breeders (if you can call them that) did not seem to know what they were doing and they did not do the health checks on the parents. If I was going to get another puppy, I would definitely trust one of you breeders on here and I'm glad I found this site. I would really like to see the Labradoodle become an official breed and I wish that BYB who don't care about a Standard would not breed them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks, Terri Lynn and Linda...always nice to see your supportive posts.

Kim...I do hope that you didn't feel that I was speaking out against your decision...I think that you were clear when you mentioned the 2 year warranty and that made me believe that you were dealing with a good breeder.

I do appreciate you taking the time to write this post though. I think that what you are saying is absolutely true.

Many breeders, myself included, will discount puppies if they are around after 12 weeks...not because we are trying to "get rid" of any puppies, but because the main focus is to get the pups into GOOD homes while they are still young enough to transition easily and to learn well.

I don't base any of my opinions on prices because so many factors figure into setting a price. The only thing important to me is that these puppies find good, loving and long term homes...and that the puppies are as healthy as possible. I feel that we owe them that much.

So, thank you for your input and clarification...and for this opportunity to explain to you ... and others... that I am not judging...only trying to educate.

I am sincerely happy for you and so glad that you were able to find your sweet puppy!
 

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Jac - I enjoy engaging in conversation on here and did not take offense at your post at all. Sometimes the meaning and tone does not get across in writing, so I hope I didn't sound defensive. I really agree with the point you are making. :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Nope...you didn't sound defensive, I just wanted to be sure that I didn't unintentionally hurt your feelings! Glad we are all on the same page...it is a topic that is very dear to my heart. :wink:
 

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P.S. After finding this site and reading all the great info and finding the Australian LD site, I am MORE committed to buying from good breeders. If I ever wanted to get another LD puppy, I would want one from a breeder who was trying to meet the Standard for the LD and work towards getting a consistent breed. The puppy would not have to be perfect, but, I would like to buy from a breeder who had the goal in mind to develop a LD breed.
 

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Jaq,

As someone new to the site and excited to bring home our F1 puppy in two weeks (@ 12 weeks), I appreciate the information you provide throughout this website and your careful and well-thought out comments here. The time you spend here is appreciated.
 

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kim, jts, Molly and all, one part of our very wonderful "business" as breeders is loving meeting people like you guys who care about your puppy, and realize the value in excellent breeding, not just the right color, or even the "right" coat.

so on behalf of Jac, Di, Linda, and all the other breeders here, and on behalf of our puppies, THANK YOU!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Very well said, Maureen...thank you for adding that extremely important part of the mix.

In support of Maureen's heartfelt thanks...I'd like to add mine too. You guys are fabulous!
 

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Thanks Jac, you always have the right words to say and such a way of getting across what needs to be said. This subject is such a thorn in all our sides. I have a real hard time with the fact that there are so many people out there that call themselves "breeders" that have no conscience or heart. How they can hand these puppies, litter after litter, over to brokers, not knowing where they are going to end up or what kind of existence they are going to lead is beyond me. For the life of me, I can't understand why these people can't be stopped. I guess as long as people keep buying from pet shops and from BYB, it will continue :cry:
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Boy, I hear you! I still have 4 puppies left in my litter and I had a person write wanting to buy one...and I just got heartsick thinking of losing him! I want him to have his own loving home...but what about me?? lol

Yep, I don't get it...how they treat them like "things" instead of family.
 

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A local family came over to meet me and our puppies. Yet, they were considering buying a puppy from someone 100's of miles away because she would sell them an f1b puppy for $450-500. I read her "guarantee" and it's good for 1yr. and there was NO protection against coccidia, or giardia, once the puppy left her, purporting that none of them were present when the puppy was delivered. :roll: Does she offer proof of that before she delivers?

I could not say she was a PM because I haven't been there. But there were so many "red flags" on her site and I was sad that with this fmaily the pricetag was going to trump all of it. I would at least like someone to come and negotiate, if they see any value in the care and temperments, and socialization our puppies have been given.
 
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