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Discussion Starter #1
Hi Everyone
I wanted to say that due to this recall that I have thrown out
two bags of Iams Dry Kibble that I was feeding to one cat.
It is not on the recall list but like Jac says down the road if it ends up on the list I do not want to take a chance.
Years ago Iams was charged with cruelty to animls in its testing labs.
There was a lot of hype on this and I did not know what to believe.
I stopped buying their products just in case. I later read that they had cleaned up their act and bought some more product as I have one cat and that is all he would eat. Now with all this recall going on I have been reading once again on what PETA((people for the Ethical treatment of Animals) has to say about IAMS and some others.
It has literaly made me sick as some of the video is very graphic.
I am not a crusader and do not know if all this is true, but I am asking
you guys to take a look as your opinions are very important. I do not understand Animal testing period but I realize that some people do and I am not going to try to change the world's mind on this BUT I do not understand why IAMS needs to do it at all. Please take a look and it does not matter if none of you ever use their product. As Animal lovers if you can believe that any of this is true then it will grab your heart and maybe we can help put an end to it.

Thanks for listening
Sue

http://www.peta.org/
 

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Ok...i just read this article and am abhorred!!!

I do realize pet food needs testing...but like meds that are new there is a control group and placebo group with health considerations in effect.

But to know you are going to harm an animal , have facts they died. HOW the hell can anyone in their right mind condone this type of practice. Don't they have a conscience and heart even some feelings? or is a paycheck and profit more motivational in life??? sorry but sometimes i get worked up over this stuff.

After learning this as well as thepet food recalll...i would boycott them.

If it were humans lawsuits would be overflowing!!!

SUE thanks for this post and i will continue more as i have to eat first and settle in from work....thanks

OH the 2 teenagers that tortured a puppy but putting it in the oven were sentenced to jail. There is a VET that took criminal justice courses, witnessed countless autotopsies to learn more....and now how are they getting people to listen to why animal abuse/cruelty is wrong? by showing pictures of a puppies claws worn down and bloody from trying to get out of an oven....also showed a live helathy puppy and how it reacts when slightly restrained...and the real reason: then showing via statistics that these type of people then will end up hurting HUMANS

Ok now if they can get sentenced why do most people turn a head when it's animal testing/cruelty???
 

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That is all horrible, but i also wanted to point out that PETA is not all it is cracked up to be. not too long ago some workers for peta were sentenced to jail for taking some kittens from a vets office stating that they would save them and find them homes. Well, they euthanized them in their can and dumped them in a dumpster. http://www.petakillsanimals.com/

http://www.consumerfreedom.com/pressRel ... elease/148

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... DC9BK1.DTL

http://www.austinreview.com/archives/20 ... lls_1.html

http://www.nokillnow.com/PETAIngridNewkirkResign.htm

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/006766.htm
Just a few articles to show how bad they really are..
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Shannon
As I said I am not a crusader for PETA as I too have heard bad stuff about them, But is Iams doing any of this to animals???
Do you think they do?? How do ordinary people take down PETA and IAMS and anyone else doing any of this Cruelty to Animals???? How do we know if any group that says they are fighting cruelty reall are???
I really appreciate you taking the time for this Shannon
Thanks
Sue
 

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OK forget PETA for now...bear with me.

I am not a crusader but animal testing has been around for years for also human medications and over the counter products.
Then in the 1970s(?? not sure if right time period) we had the exposure of slaughter houses and such.

So maybe we just need to THINK about the food we serve our dogs and see if they are contributing to animal cruelty in anyway.

Ok VEAL is made my having baby calves in small boxlike containment areas so the the meat is tender. I stopped eating veal in 1980 when i learned of this. I watched a documentray on tv, read up and omg i boycott veal for this reason.

There's always going to be animal cruelty...just like humans will always be murdered. it's a fact of life and nature unfortunately.

BUT if a dog food company can be shown to being cruel to animals then YES i will boycott that food and any products they make whether dog food related or not.

and on food recall. Since Max has continuously tested negative to worms since months ago i have to wonder if the Nutro had something in it OR does he just have sensitivity to certain foods.
 

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I wish I could say for sure if Iams is testing on animals, but I do believe that menu foods does test on animals and they are a supplier for Iams. I have seen the stuff on Iams and that is why I never fed it to my dogs. There is other stuff out there that is better and cheaper.

I only posted the peta stuff because I find them very hard to believe with what they say when do such horrible things themselves. I guess my point was not to trust what peta says, but I have heard the very same things about iams. Animal testing has been going on since forever, and I don't think we can really prove or disprove anything with any food company.

What kind of nutro food was or is Max on??
 

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Max had a mixture of Sensitvie Tummy and Puppy food nutro
the Chicken Rice and Oatmeal ...only dry

I see what you are saying about PETA shannon...ther's good and bad with almost every organization. BUT i am looking more into the principle here and not organizations.

can we make a difference? maybe or maybe not. but if i try then i know i took a stand for what i believe in
 

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As Jac had said before. If you suspect anything could be causing them to be sick or have soft stools, switch the food. I have all of mine on canidae now. There is no wheat and it is all human grade foods in it. A lot of people feed it to their doodles. If you suspect the food as a culprit, I would switch to be safe. I am not one that normally gets worried, but in this case, I can't help it. Who knows where the wheat went besides in the canned foods.
 

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Ok, soap box time.

I know some people will read what they like into things and I also know that there are some people that will read just what they want and then there are people who won't read some things because it's not what they want to hear, so here goes...

I used to live close to where Iams was founded (Lima, Ohio), before P&G bought them. I know before the P&G buy out, it was human grade food and the only way you could get it was kind of like Canadae is now, hard to get and very expensive. When P&G got Iams, they put it on the fast track and you can buy it any where, but they changed the formula. The Dry food is not made by Menu Foods, it is made at the original factory. Don't know why they have the wet food made by Menu, except costs and the old money thing. Iams used to be all dry food.
As for PETA, I wouldn't believe anything they told me. These are the people who in "protesting" would burn down a lab where they test animals, killing the poor caged, no chance of escaping test animal. Throw blood on a fur coat so the person wearing the coat has to go out and buy a new fur coat - killing another animal. Would rather see a human child die than "harm" a rat testing a life saving medication.
How may of you are willing to stop eating animals and the products they provide? Do you know how many of these products you use everyday? Do you know how they are produced? Most of the animals never see the outside of a barn and are raised in a farm factory, a stinky, dirty barn where they are fed and fattened for profit. This includes the chicken from a soup can, leather laces on a baseball, and why do you suppose they call a football "pig skin?" All of us who feed our pets dog food, do you know where they get the animals for the dog food? No, it's not usually from "Farmer Brown." It's from these farm factories. And don't even get me started on the them!

Ok, Off the soap box now - Next!
 

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hear hear vote for Cinsmom as president :D :D :D

ACTUALLY you made some GREAT points which should be taken into consideration.
many of the products we use we are unaware of the animal testing done. for me not eating veal was just one stance.

OH canidae right now is on sale here at one store for $26.99 for a 40lbs bag and the expiration date is Jan2008. not a bad deal. i also found it less expensive than other dog foods like Innova, Calif natural, etc
HOWEVER regardless of cost, the ingredients used are dog-friendly meaning there are ingredients to aid digestion -- a requirement for my doodles lately.

Also i don't need PETA to tell me anything...just try reading news around the world online. thereis animal cruelty both in testing and also kids/adults that are not right mentally.
So for me, if i see a product i use that does animal testing i try to NOT use it anymore. I do try to keep up-to-date and have been known to boycott stores, products, people so that are against my principles of hedonism and moral principles.
 

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I too try to do the best I can about being informed about where I shop and what I eat. And what I feed my dog. It's confusing at times, but if you use your head you can make good choices.

And no, I don't want to be president!
 

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As in all things, beliefs and passions are not compatible...I don't fault anyone for their opinions, and certainly don't believe that anyone should believe as I do.
All I ask is that whatever your decision, make it based on research. It is so easy to get on forums like this and read opinions from people like me, but I am speaking from my own "place" and my own background. Things important to me may not be important to you...so, consider what is important to you and find out where the companies stand.
If you believe that their operations are in conflict with your core, don't buy from them...if you feel outraged by their system, let them (and others) know where you stand and why...but we are not changing the world, no matter how hard we try. We will make friends, enemies and allies along the way. But the bottom line, for these companies, is money...they really don't care so much about your little "Fluffy".
Cinnsmom answered an important question for me, and I intend to research the point she made because it is the basis of my complaint against ALL of these companies (wet=poison, dry=safe)...
1) If gluten has traces of rat poison
2) and gluten is found in wet foods that are killing animals
3) and gluten is also found in the same brands' dry foods
4) then why should we believe that the same company, using the same ingredient in wet as in dry, does not have rat poisoned gluten in their dry?

Finally, my big question is this...and it is a compound one...Dogs and cats that eat solely dry foods are getting sick (deathly sick) and some are dying...why are the companies (that are touting their dry as safe) not interested in testing the food found in these households? I assure you; I have kept mine and would be glad to have a sample tested.

The second part of that question is this; why, when Menu Foods suspects that animals are dying from eating their food products, are they not testing the actual food (for common chemicals, common additives, common contaminants) rather than testing foods from their lines by FEEDING it to healthy dogs and cats and watching them as they get sick and die?

You see, my problem isn't that they are finding it "necessary" to test on animals (although I have a hard time wrapping my brain around animals being so disposable) rather than testing the very foods of animals around the world ALREADY KNOWN to have become deathly ill or fatally poisoned.

Their choices, they say, are because they need a controlled environment...they can't be certain that the dogs/cats didn't eat something ELSE besides the food....okay...so test the damned food that they ate! (At least as a first step.)

I don't know, is that just too logical? I am not a scientist, but I would want to find the least harmful way to test this issue, if it were in my realm of authority.
 

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The problem with testing the food in your home is the old "Wendy's" factor (remember the finger in the chili thing?). It's not a controlled environment and you can add anything to your food after you get it home, or away from the environment in which it's made. If you have a question about your food, maybe your vet could test it for you.

Have you tried writing the company? They are probably overwhelmed about now if a lot of people in your area are having trouble and your correspondence might just open their eyes a little farther, or no one has bothered to write so the problem hasn't been brought out into the open yet. If there is no satisfaction there, the media is always looking for a good story. I'm not kidding - it's the old bottom line thing again. Bad publicity works. If it were me I would be so mad, it would be all over the news plus writing. :evil:

It needs to be brought to the general public now before another animal dies.
 
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Jac,
I brought this over in case you did not see the other post:
Jac,
Iowa State University is offering to test food for anyone affected. They are also offering to test pets that died due to the food.
http://cvmweb2.cvm.iastate.edu/departme ... px?id=2784
IOWA STATE UNIVERSITY OFFERING TO TEST DECEASED PETS & FOOD SAMPLES FOR TOXINS 03/22/07
If you suspect that an animal has been poisoned, veterinary toxicologists at Iowa State University College of Veterinary Medicine can confirm the presence of toxins in the food or samples from the pet. The Iowa State University Veterinary Diagnostic Laboratory has the capability to analyze pet food for the suspected toxic agents described above and examine tissues from animals that have died. Samples should be submitted to the Diagnostic Lab through a veterinarian. Results and charges will be sent to the submitting veterinarian.

Submission Protocol

Samples must be submitted by a veterinarian.

Use our Diagnostic Exam form.

Submit at least 2 cups of suspect feed.
Submit the entire cat or selected tissues from a dog. It is preferable to allow us to do the postmortems.
Minimal submission: fresh and fixed kidney.
 

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Cinnsmom, I understand what you are saying...and, believe me I am writing, I am calling. No responses. Can't get through to phone numbers, can't get real people and if the dog didn't die, well, not big deal. But I paid nearly $1000 to get him well, not to mention his pain and my guilt.

My way of dealing with this is to inform. There are so many people, including people on this forum, who have gone thought similar symptoms but never found the caue. Changing diets helped, when it was home cooking, but back to a kibble and the dog gets sick again.

I am still battling to inform...my goal first and foremost is to reach those people still feeding this poison.

As far as the Wendy's syndrom...well, it would be pretty darned easy to look under a microscope and see if rat poison is EMBEDDED into the kibble...not sprinkled on top. Very unlike a finger in the chili.

Linda, I really appreciate the link and will contact these people, but it looks like they are only interested in animals that died. Those of us lucky enough to save our babies don't matter. The long term affects on those survivors don't matter.

I challenge any of you to go through any animal forum, such as this one (including this one) and read about all of the same symptoms written in by baffled owners and breeders who were treating and, sometimes, losing their beloved pets. The vet visits, the uncertainty, the ultimate result. Look at how they tried various foods for sensitive tummies and cooked home made foods...and look at the ones who wrote about their dogs/cats drinking tons of water and not feeling well. And notice the HUGE increase in these types of posts since, oh, around November.

Circumstantial evidence is absolutely as stong as physical evidence...and here, if people will open thier eyes, is a wealth of information...a ton of circumstantial evidence.
 
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