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Besides the price are there really any big differences?
American Labradoodle vs Australian Labradoodle
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Marty, I love the avatar! I know that the original mix of breeds is different, but there are others here more well qualified to answer your question. I just can't wait to see photos! :lol:
I guess the biggest difference if there really is one is that they did infuse a few other breeds into the Australian lines. The problem with that is they weren't honest about a lot of it and did not keep good records so when we look at some of those lines we don't know exactly what we have.
I think the US breeders that are taking Australian and American lines and creating new ones are on the right track, as long as we test and test.
I think the US breeders that are taking Australian and American lines and creating new ones are on the right track, as long as we test and test.
I think Linda has about covered it...there have been 5 or 6 breeds, that I can recall, that have been infused or tried in the Australian Labradoodles. Most prominently, and still being used, by Australian "founders" is the Cocker Spaniel, or Cockapoo, or both.
Linda, wouldn't it be so interesting to test some of the Australian lines with that new DNA test to see how much Labrador is actually in so many of the Australian dogs?
The really good news is that for a lot of those new bloodlines that are being created their breeders have used f1b Doodles to bring in new bloodlines and more genetic diversity. Also many or most of the American breeders of Australian Labradoodles actually do follow through when they have health issues with their pups and their clients.
Linda, wouldn't it be so interesting to test some of the Australian lines with that new DNA test to see how much Labrador is actually in so many of the Australian dogs?
The really good news is that for a lot of those new bloodlines that are being created their breeders have used f1b Doodles to bring in new bloodlines and more genetic diversity. Also many or most of the American breeders of Australian Labradoodles actually do follow through when they have health issues with their pups and their clients.
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Some lines of the Australian Labradoodles have infused other breeds into them. But some do not. Napa is an Australian Labradoodle, a 4th generation, and I have the pedigree that came with him, but I also did some other research. As far back as I could go, he's purely lab and poodle.
I don't have an F1b, so I couldn't comment on the difference. I just know Napa. If you have any specific questions, I would love to answer them! I am very happy with my decision to go with an Australian, but I don't honestly know if I would have been just as happy with an F1b. But feel free to ask questions! I'm more than happy to blab about him!
I don't have an F1b, so I couldn't comment on the difference. I just know Napa. If you have any specific questions, I would love to answer them! I am very happy with my decision to go with an Australian, but I don't honestly know if I would have been just as happy with an F1b. But feel free to ask questions! I'm more than happy to blab about him!
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His lines come directly from Tegan Park and Rutland Manor. So he is an Australian Multi-generation Labradoodle.
It's also the misconception of infusing. They have kept the lines separated. They are monitoring the infusion and keeping them straight. They are infusing breeds to improve coat, bone structure, temperament, and health. The breeding of Australian Labradoodles are also closely monitored. They are waiting to see how the infusing affects future generations before they commit to the infusion.
So, if you don't want an infused labradoodle, ask for the pedigree- which typically only goes back a few generations, but many breeders have pedigrees online, so you can do your own research.
It's also the misconception of infusing. They have kept the lines separated. They are monitoring the infusion and keeping them straight. They are infusing breeds to improve coat, bone structure, temperament, and health. The breeding of Australian Labradoodles are also closely monitored. They are waiting to see how the infusing affects future generations before they commit to the infusion.
So, if you don't want an infused labradoodle, ask for the pedigree- which typically only goes back a few generations, but many breeders have pedigrees online, so you can do your own research.
hold on here....you just said they are infusing breeds and monitoring those infusions.
Help me remember, which breeder did Napa come from? I might know them, and there are some great ones, with really great Doodles, but most reputable Australian Doodle breeders - all the breeders I'm aware of - will admit there ARE other breeds besides Labrador and Poodle in their TP or RM dogs.
What Labrador Retriever(s) are in your Napa's pedigree? Which Poodles?
Maybe others have the same lines in their Doodles.
Help me remember, which breeder did Napa come from? I might know them, and there are some great ones, with really great Doodles, but most reputable Australian Doodle breeders - all the breeders I'm aware of - will admit there ARE other breeds besides Labrador and Poodle in their TP or RM dogs.
What Labrador Retriever(s) are in your Napa's pedigree? Which Poodles?
Maybe others have the same lines in their Doodles.
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I'm really not going to get into this argument again. But I have a pedigree here with 5 generations on it, and all that's present are labradoodles and poodles. So, even if there was an infusing 6 generations ago, its not present now. But I'm running late for class, and will do my search tonight, again. So I'll get a better answer for you tonight.
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I hope this doesn't turn into an argument. As a lurker/ infrequent poster i really enjoy the positive caring environment of this forum. Regardless of Napa's genetic tree, he is a beautifull darling dog and I am sure he brings you alot of love and happiness.Paintsmeblue said:
From a purely interest sake, I would like to know what is in an australian labradoodle. The answer of 2 breeds or 6 breeds doesnt change how wonderfull the dogs are. Being just 2 breeds doesnt make north american labradoodles any better or worse...but until they breed true they can't really be considered a breed, which is where I would love to see the labradoodle be. There is so much animosity from the pure bred dog people that we labradoodle owners have to put with we really should not have to defend our dogs here, be it F1, F1b, multi, or Aussie.
It was always my understanding that an Australian Labradoodle came from the Australian lines and I always heard/assumed they were infused with at least 6 other breeds...sounds like that information may not be correct, judging from Napa's line. I know of Napa's breeder, she is a good and reputable one.
Also, my understanding, was that the difference in US and Australian doodles was that US breeders only used Lab X Poodle, but that is also changing.
Many US breeders are getting Australian breeding stock and crossing their US dogs, some F1s and others are higher.
So, as in all things, I think that changes are bound to happen...and I think that the biggest source of confusion was the change of the name from ILA (International Labradoodle Association) to ALAA (Australian Labradoodle Association of America...I think.) But when that happened, or perhaps before, the members voted to officially honor Australia as the "birthplace" of Labradoodles and include Australian Labradoodle titles into all of the breeds. Big mistake, I think...but it is done. So, now, people are calling F1s Australian Labradoodles and anything higher they are calling Australian Multigens...which, in my opinion, is very misleading.
Still, as in Kristen's case, if the pedigree traces back to the original Australian lines, it should be an Australian Labradoodle.
That being said, I am not a die-hard pedigree person. I much prefer DNA matching. I think that if people were being honest about their pedigrees, they should favor a DNA data base with their lineage provided to the public. (This comes from my Poodle line, not my Labradoodles, just to be clear.) :wink:
Also, my understanding, was that the difference in US and Australian doodles was that US breeders only used Lab X Poodle, but that is also changing.
Many US breeders are getting Australian breeding stock and crossing their US dogs, some F1s and others are higher.
So, as in all things, I think that changes are bound to happen...and I think that the biggest source of confusion was the change of the name from ILA (International Labradoodle Association) to ALAA (Australian Labradoodle Association of America...I think.) But when that happened, or perhaps before, the members voted to officially honor Australia as the "birthplace" of Labradoodles and include Australian Labradoodle titles into all of the breeds. Big mistake, I think...but it is done. So, now, people are calling F1s Australian Labradoodles and anything higher they are calling Australian Multigens...which, in my opinion, is very misleading.
Still, as in Kristen's case, if the pedigree traces back to the original Australian lines, it should be an Australian Labradoodle.
That being said, I am not a die-hard pedigree person. I much prefer DNA matching. I think that if people were being honest about their pedigrees, they should favor a DNA data base with their lineage provided to the public. (This comes from my Poodle line, not my Labradoodles, just to be clear.) :wink:
I am NOT impuning any breeder, as you know, Jac. But the fact remains established and not hidden (anymore) that the TP and RM Labradoodles have and have had multiple breeds in them. Linda (gracielou) has Australian good lines and is a reliable source on that.Jac said:
As recently as last year there was a Cockapoo in the RM or TP-USA breeding stock. And Cocker Spaniels are accepted by the ILA as ok in Labradoodles, aren't they?
There is no shame assigned to anyone having an Australian bloodline so why is there any need to deny this history of the RM or TP dogs?
I am not aware of the fact that an F1 could be called an "Australian" Labradoodle...I'm not a member of ILA so that memo wouldn't come here, I guess. :wink: Like Linda said, the infusion of multiple breeds, to me, is the difference between an Australian Doodle and a North American Doodle.
I'm just jumping in here with my understanding; and someone please correct me if I'm wrong:
I was under the impression that years ago, the infusion of other breeds was thrown into the mix, in order to establish a kind of 'breeding base'; and the result are the pedigree Doodles you have today.
If this occurred 6, 7, 8, generations ago.....1) would it still not be correct to say that all Australian Labradoodles have this infusion?? And 2) How far removed does the infusion have to be in order for it to not be influential anymore? Like, if it's there, it's there, right??
I'm not a proponent of one generation over another....Dex is an ALF2; but I could have and would have just as easily gotten an earlier cross had the opportunity unfolded that way.
I was under the impression that years ago, the infusion of other breeds was thrown into the mix, in order to establish a kind of 'breeding base'; and the result are the pedigree Doodles you have today.
If this occurred 6, 7, 8, generations ago.....1) would it still not be correct to say that all Australian Labradoodles have this infusion?? And 2) How far removed does the infusion have to be in order for it to not be influential anymore? Like, if it's there, it's there, right??
I'm not a proponent of one generation over another....Dex is an ALF2; but I could have and would have just as easily gotten an earlier cross had the opportunity unfolded that way.
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Thank you all for your replies. Seems there is much more to the distinction of the two then I originally thought. The Australian doodles seem to be so much more expensive which surprises me since they are more then just labs and poodles in the line. To be honest, it sounds like it would be best to have the American doodle. Are the Australian doodles mixed with a Cocker Spaniel to make them smaller?
I'm spending more time trying to find a doodle but it's so much fun looking at all the puppies online. Now, if only I could get a whiff of puppy breath from my computer I'd be one happy doodle momma. :lol:
I'm spending more time trying to find a doodle but it's so much fun looking at all the puppies online. Now, if only I could get a whiff of puppy breath from my computer I'd be one happy doodle momma. :lol:
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Your on the rite track
Yes they have infused not only cocker spaniels also some terriers in the lines also ,,,unfortunatly
just a fyi,,the very most likly to be NON shedding and allergy friendly of any doodle is the F1b Labradoodle
You seem to have gotten the jest of the info, and making a pretty good decisionJorja'smom said:
Yes they have infused not only cocker spaniels also some terriers in the lines also ,,,unfortunatly
just a fyi,,the very most likly to be NON shedding and allergy friendly of any doodle is the F1b Labradoodle
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I just got home from spending the day on campus, and plan on starting researching asap.
There is a point to where an infusion, if the infusion isn't kept, that it does become obsolete. Hypothetically speaking, if when I start my research, I find out that one parent in the 6th generation is an infusion. If it is a purebred (the percentage being less if its a hybrid), then it is 1/64th of Napa, with the rest being labradoodle and poodle- I don't have those numbers yet, but I'm a math major, taking statistics right now, so this has peaked my interest. Would you say that any of that infused breed is left in Napa now? I don't think so. The dominant genes in the labradoodles and the poodles have far outed the genes that were infused.
My point is that NOT ALL LINES are currently infused. And NOT ALL AUSTRALIAN LABRADOODLES have infused breeds. My point is that those who do not have personal contact with Australians shouldn't be making such generalizations and stereotypes. It would be like someone who doesn't have personal contact with F1b's to say they are just poodle with hardly any of the other parent breed left--- a generalization and stereotype that is proven wrong on this forum every day. It's fine to comment that they COULD have infusion, but NOT ALL. That might be the mathematician in me talking, but it is a big difference. And when people ask these types of questions, instead of bashing the other side- which giving false information is- shouldn't we talk about the good about what we do know, as well as the bad- but only if we have personal contact with it.
It's also from my understanding that something big happened a while ago that caused this line to be drawn in the sand. But much has changed- it appears- in the organization of Labradoodles since then, and information has changed. I'm not saying that infusions didn't happen, I'm not denying that. But I'm denying the fact that EVERY LINE has infusion, and EVERY DOG has all those infusions in them. We don't say that Golden Retrievers are the parent breeds because they've been Golden's for so long- same is for Labradoodles. There comes a time when the infused breeds become the Australian Labradoodles.
On a totally different note. I'm glad this came up. I needed a research project from my Stat's class. I'm somehow going to do something with either genetics or puppy weights or just plain theoretical outcomes of matches between labradoodles! I just need to figure that out!
There is a point to where an infusion, if the infusion isn't kept, that it does become obsolete. Hypothetically speaking, if when I start my research, I find out that one parent in the 6th generation is an infusion. If it is a purebred (the percentage being less if its a hybrid), then it is 1/64th of Napa, with the rest being labradoodle and poodle- I don't have those numbers yet, but I'm a math major, taking statistics right now, so this has peaked my interest. Would you say that any of that infused breed is left in Napa now? I don't think so. The dominant genes in the labradoodles and the poodles have far outed the genes that were infused.
My point is that NOT ALL LINES are currently infused. And NOT ALL AUSTRALIAN LABRADOODLES have infused breeds. My point is that those who do not have personal contact with Australians shouldn't be making such generalizations and stereotypes. It would be like someone who doesn't have personal contact with F1b's to say they are just poodle with hardly any of the other parent breed left--- a generalization and stereotype that is proven wrong on this forum every day. It's fine to comment that they COULD have infusion, but NOT ALL. That might be the mathematician in me talking, but it is a big difference. And when people ask these types of questions, instead of bashing the other side- which giving false information is- shouldn't we talk about the good about what we do know, as well as the bad- but only if we have personal contact with it.
It's also from my understanding that something big happened a while ago that caused this line to be drawn in the sand. But much has changed- it appears- in the organization of Labradoodles since then, and information has changed. I'm not saying that infusions didn't happen, I'm not denying that. But I'm denying the fact that EVERY LINE has infusion, and EVERY DOG has all those infusions in them. We don't say that Golden Retrievers are the parent breeds because they've been Golden's for so long- same is for Labradoodles. There comes a time when the infused breeds become the Australian Labradoodles.
On a totally different note. I'm glad this came up. I needed a research project from my Stat's class. I'm somehow going to do something with either genetics or puppy weights or just plain theoretical outcomes of matches between labradoodles! I just need to figure that out!
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hahaha Kristen...back in 2001 I did my stats paper on all homes sold in my town for 1year, how many were over assessed value and what %age versus under value...and then the median average for a specific range of prices, size, etc .............HAVE FUN hahhahahhaaa
and i am going to add this....I cannot resist hahhahahaaaaa
opens up the hornet nest...yup i see lots of bees working hard not sure if any are angry ones yet.
dont' all dogs decend from wolves
or can i be like a wendy's commercial cause if you go down the genetic lineage
parts is parts is parts!!!
and I just love my plain old labradoodle and goldendoodle that definitely have a mixture lineage of love, intelligence and goofiness hahhahaaa
and i am going to add this....I cannot resist hahhahahaaaaa
opens up the hornet nest...yup i see lots of bees working hard not sure if any are angry ones yet.
dont' all dogs decend from wolves
or can i be like a wendy's commercial cause if you go down the genetic lineage
parts is parts is parts!!!
and I just love my plain old labradoodle and goldendoodle that definitely have a mixture lineage of love, intelligence and goofiness hahhahaaa
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Hey Kristen
Love the statement line in the sand :lol:
I think alot of what happened is that a couple of the australian breeders refused to answer for a very long time how much infusiion of poodle was in the line, a fellow named Kurt figured it up once it was something like 15-16th poodle in most of the lines he researched, and a few of us thought that was way to much and it was ending up being full poodle, then it was revealed, after denial for so long that terriers and spaniels were infused also, in fact some australian labradoodle owners really are not sure what the heritage is ,it was also brought out that some were fudged at the time of one argument between mother and daughter,
but you know when it comes down too it,, we as breeders do what we think is best for the breed, for me i only use parent breeds, i personally do not think that cockers or terriers have anything posisitive to add, some may not agree, but that is their program not mine,
i have a dream of what i want my line to do, act like ,look like, and i use my 3o yrs breeding training experience to accomplish it, size is secondary to any of it, because NO breeder can honsetly predict size in a doodle these are afterall hybrids,
i recently found out that a breeder is breeding cocker to lab then to a poodle calling them labradoodles to get color as well as size , its a shame,for the breed and for the consumer,,hopefully this will come to light soon, douptful but one can hope,
just hug your dood, daily,,
thats what we got em for
Love the statement line in the sand :lol:
I think alot of what happened is that a couple of the australian breeders refused to answer for a very long time how much infusiion of poodle was in the line, a fellow named Kurt figured it up once it was something like 15-16th poodle in most of the lines he researched, and a few of us thought that was way to much and it was ending up being full poodle, then it was revealed, after denial for so long that terriers and spaniels were infused also, in fact some australian labradoodle owners really are not sure what the heritage is ,it was also brought out that some were fudged at the time of one argument between mother and daughter,
but you know when it comes down too it,, we as breeders do what we think is best for the breed, for me i only use parent breeds, i personally do not think that cockers or terriers have anything posisitive to add, some may not agree, but that is their program not mine,
i have a dream of what i want my line to do, act like ,look like, and i use my 3o yrs breeding training experience to accomplish it, size is secondary to any of it, because NO breeder can honsetly predict size in a doodle these are afterall hybrids,
i recently found out that a breeder is breeding cocker to lab then to a poodle calling them labradoodles to get color as well as size , its a shame,for the breed and for the consumer,,hopefully this will come to light soon, douptful but one can hope,
just hug your dood, daily,,
thats what we got em for
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Interesting topic, but........I dont see anyone "arguing or bashing" , those are such harsh words and this is a friendly place where people are entitled to a difference of opinion and should be able to ask questions, make statements without someone thinking they are arguing or bashing - I dont think I've heard those words used here before
I'm not a geneticist so can't answer the questions being raised, although it would be fun to chat with one and get their opinion.
My question is, if a white and an african american have a child together and then that child has a child with a AA and that Child has a child with an AA and so on, down the road one of those children still has the possiblitiy of popping out a white baby as the genes are being passed down thru all those lines, same with a child who is born blonde to brunette parents, who both had brunette parents and brunette grandparents, and brunette great grandparents, somewhere down the line those blonde genes got passed down I would think it would be the same with dogs, yes, no??
fascinating topic
I'm not a geneticist so can't answer the questions being raised, although it would be fun to chat with one and get their opinion.
My question is, if a white and an african american have a child together and then that child has a child with a AA and that Child has a child with an AA and so on, down the road one of those children still has the possiblitiy of popping out a white baby as the genes are being passed down thru all those lines, same with a child who is born blonde to brunette parents, who both had brunette parents and brunette grandparents, and brunette great grandparents, somewhere down the line those blonde genes got passed down I would think it would be the same with dogs, yes, no??
fascinating topic
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